New POV character in A DANCE WITH DRAGONS

This from GRRM's Not a Blog:

I actually had a very good day today, writing about a character who wasn't originally supposed to be a POV, but has turned out to be sharpest sword I've got for slicing through the Meereenese knot. I'd feel very good about that, except somehow it has become AUGUST. With worldcon bearing down on me like a freight train.

I know it's not fast enough for most ASOIAF fans out there, yet slowly but surely progress is being made regarding the completion of George R. R. Martin's A Dance With Dragons (Canada, USA, Europe).

32 commentaires:

Anonymous said...

The fact that this book is 6 years in the making, and he is still trying to figure out the fucking pov's...sigh. I'll be surprised if it is ever released. And I stand by my prediction that he will never finish another ASoIAF book beyond dance. TO me this series ended with Storm...

Anonymous said...

"yet slowly but surely progress is being made regarding the completion..." There is absolutely no actual evidence to support this statement. In fact, all words from the horse's mouth can just as easily be read to indicate there is no progress being made towards "completion" at all. GRRM appears to have become lost in his own labyrinth.

Anonymous said...

I'd be more annoyed, but I accepted years ago that he was never going to finish the series.

Plus, Erikson has surpassed him in every way, and Malazan is actually ending in a very timely manner. So yay for excellent authors that actually have a full story to tell, and boo to good ones that don't.

J said...

Just means Sanderson will get more work right?

brainshades said...

If that's the case, if the ending is never tied up and tacked on, is the series still worth reading? I finally read "Game of Thrones" earlier this year and was quite pleased with it; but I honestly don't know if I want to read anymore of the series if the ending isn't going to be completed within the author's natural lifetime.

That would be an interesting thread to start--- "what writer is best suited to finishing George R.R. Martin's 'A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE'?"

I'm sure someone's asked that question aloud before...

brainshades said...

I'm still very new to this series and discussing George's problems in finishing off this book and the series overall, so forgive me if this is an old question...

Where is the so called "knot" section located in the current book? Depending upon the location, isn't there a way to just publish the current completed content and work out the "knot" in a later book?

Basically, if he already knows how events play out before and after the "knot", OR, if it's something that occurs at the end of the book, why can't he just leave it out?

If this "knot" issue occurs early in the narrative, then isn't it likely that he's nowhere near done with it?

Anonymous said...

You people are funny...blah blah...series end for me a long time ago....YET YOU STILL follow it enough to comment on the status of the new book. Very funny!!!

Arthur said...

I get the sense from interviews and his Not a Blog that he is a huge perfectionist; every book must be up to his own personal standard in terms of what he wants to happen in it, pacing, tone, etc. And we all know the biggest obstacle perfectionists face is procrastination.

At this point in the series, however, I think its time to just step up the pace and finish it. I get that he is going for long-lasting literary fame and glory, but its more respectable to finish the series in your lifetime than to leave it half-done. Still, I understand his dilemma, so I suggest a compromise. Put out a book every 3-4 years, that should ensure a fair level of quality and still see the whole thing finished.

Kesera said...

I tried to stay away, but I can't let it go. Pat, love your optimism, but I've seen this all before. This is GRRM's typical M.O. prior to going on a long break (in this case worldcon in Oz). He puts out a flurry of updates indicating he's working his but off. Then just prior to leaving he makes the post that he got heaps done (lists all other side project completions), but sadly ADWD wasn't completed, nothing to be done, off for a month. Then he'll need a month to acclimatise to home and catch up on ... whatever, then it's NFL season, so it's not getting done this year.

If he was really serious, he'd cancel his worldcon trip.

Anonymous said...

It is funny that he is even going to conventions, etc. when the major work of his career is in limbo. He is also very touchy about the subject, yet never stops promoting the HBO series. I think he had no idea how much work a multi-part fantasy series was going to be, and got bored with it. Hence all the other crap peddled on his site.

Mayo said...

It seems most people are split into two categories.

The "OMG why isnt the book out NOW?! He's going to pull a Jordan!" and the "all you people complaining are entitled children! The author doesn't own his fans anything! He can take as long as he wants!"

Though, Kesera is 100% correct. We have see this dance before. (pun)

Anonymous said...

Yeah, I doubt he'll ever finish the series, too.
He has written too many POVs, too many (irrelevant) plot threads and there is no way of simply putting them all together anymore. The story is running away from him and it is sad to see.
I have lost that urgency to know what happens next during these last 5 years. Now, I barely care anymore.

Adam Whitehead said...

"Where is the so called "knot" section located in the current book? Depending upon the location, isn't there a way to just publish the current completed content and work out the "knot" in a later book? Basically, if he already knows how events play out before and after the "knot", OR, if it's something that occurs at the end of the book, why can't he just leave it out?"

Based on the information we have, the Knot is the climax of Daenerys's storyline in DRAGONS. Dany is the main character in DRAGONS with more POV chapters than anyone else and also appearing in other characters' POV chapters. Fan speculation is that the Knot is the event which ends Dany's stay in Meereen and puts her on the road back to Westeros, an even which really has to happen in DRAGONS. It's the end of the story of the individual book, and without it DRAGONS may come across as anti-climatic or having a cliffhanger ending which will take another 3/5/whatever years before it's resolved. It'd be like having A CLASH OF KINGS without the Battle of the Blackwater: yeah, you could push it back to SWORDS, but it works much better where it is.

"If this "knot" issue occurs early in the narrative, then isn't it likely that he's nowhere near done with it?"

GRRM does not write the books in strict chronological order. For example, the Red Wedding chapters (which occur around halfway through A STORM OF SWORDS) were written after everything else for that book, whilst all of Tyrion's material for A STORM OF SWORDS was written (at least in draft) before A CLASH OF KINGS was finished. In fact, GRRM recently reported that he had written the epilogue to DRAGONS, the final chapter in the book.

Cecrow said...

I'm on a more positive slant about the whole thing (although Kesera has me concerned, I hadn't noticed that blog pattern). ASOIAF intervals drag on and on, but it's only because it's so good that it's frustrating to wait and wonder. Can't assume anything about when or if, but I'll buy it hardcover if it ever gets done.

Xenophon said...

It's actually been more than 6 years. He is 6 past his original anticipated publishing date. Mr.Martin has moved much material to the next book and even written some for the book after that, all the while Dance gets smaller and less grandiose.

I have mixed feelings about Mr. Martin. On one hand, he has created something very wonderful that inspired me to up my A game as a writer. His flawed character depth and attention to detail has upped the bar for writers and renewed interest in the genre. Two thumbs up!

On the other, it seems he has cashed in on the interest it created. Constantly pushing calenders and signed copied of his novels. All the while working on side projects that if it wasn't for ASoIaF wouldn't get as much interest as the do.

And now he is enmeshed with HBO's production of the first book. Which originally I thought would be as cheesy as the adaptation of Pratchett's The Color of Magic, but has turned out to be much more.

Being 7'1" I even tried to get in on the fun by auditioning for the role of Hodor, but sadly was not cast.

Fortunately, GRRM is not the only game in town. There are plenty of fantastic finished series out there that I have not read. So I am not biting my nails with baited breath on this one.

If the second half of ASoIaF is as excellent as the first, it will be worth the wait. Maybe in 20 years I will pick it up and read the whole thing from beginning to end.

In the meantime, GRRM should keep in mind the Reaper waits for no one to finish a series. Just ask Robert Jordan, Tik, tik, tik...

“To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time.”

Leonard Bernstein

Goofilin said...

As always: Hope for the best but expect the worst.


d

Casey said...

Would I like the book to be finished and in my hands ASAP? Definitely. Am I willing to sacrifice quality for gratification now? Hell no. GRRM can take as much time as he needs. He is my absolute favorite author, but he isn't the only great fantasy author out there (shut up Erikson fans, I see you waving your arms over there. :P ) In the end, it's just a book...my life will continue without it RIGHT NOW. The anger is the most disappointing part of this whole debate for me.

Adam Whitehead said...

"It's actually been more than 6 years. He is 6 past his original anticipated publishing date. Mr.Martin has moved much material to the next book and even written some for the book after that, all the while Dance gets smaller and less grandiose."

DANCE has gotten a lot bigger and a lot more ambitious (grandiose if you like) since its original, circa 2005-06 format of being just the flipside of AFFC. He's also moved some material to Book 6, but we have not heard anything at all about material being moved to Book 7.

AFFC was also published in October 2005, so we're not quite five years since it came out yet, let alone ADWD's original suggested date (late 2006). Not sure how you get more than six years from that. If that was the case it would be early 2013 and we'd be enjoying the second season of the TV series right about now.

Xenophon said...

@ Whitehead,

I was counting from the announcement made just after ASoS was released. Since AFfC was meant to be part of it. just as ADwD was suppose to also be part of the previous novel before being divided once more. So technically it has been over six years. But I'm not into splitting hairs. Let's just say it's long overdue...

Anonymous said...

"With worldcon bearing down on me like a freight train."

Does George consider this a major responsibility? Why?

machinery said...

this is getting tiresome.
i have found a lot of other books since his (and during and before of course).
to be honext, i have read the first 3 books, and waited patiently.
when the 4th came out i said (to myself, in my mind) that i will start reading it when there is a final publishing date for the 5th.
it's been waiting for the past 4 years (paperback, mind you, which means even after the HC version came).
4 years.
during this time i have aquainted myself with the malazan books, the butcher books, quite a few other series.

and you know what ?

i don't realy miss soiaf all that much, i would definitly want to read the next books if they come out, but i won't much care if they don't/

adam whitehead, maybe you should relay this message to g.r.r.martin :
take your time, i don't care if you write the damn books or not, i have other things.

Anonymous said...

Martin originally planned for the fourth book to be called A Dance with Dragons with the story picking up five years after the events of A Storm of Swords (primarily to advance the ages of the younger characters). However, during the writing process it was discovered that this was leading to an overreliance on flashbacks to fill in the gap. After twelve months or so of working on the book, Martin decided to abandon much of what had previously been written and start again, this time picking up immediately after the end of A Storm of Swords. He announced this decision, along with the new title A Feast for Crows, at Worldcon in Philadelphia on September 1, 2001. He also announced that A Dance with Dragons would now be the fifth book in the sequence.[12]

Jens said...

Hi Anonymous,

you forgot to remove the 12 in brackets when you copied your text from the below wikipedia article. Which you also forgot to mention as your source...
Bad style! ;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Feast_for_Crows

brainshades said...

@Adam - thanks for the insight into the timeline... that's what I was interested in knowing. Your comments somewhat confirm my theory that Martin does have the narrative and plot figured out for the events “before and after” the so called "Knot". This is why I asked if he couldn't just keep on trucking around it somehow. But I'm not assuming it's an easy decision to make on his part.

@machinery -- you are spot on here... at some point the relevance of this series and his work is going to be totally lost; an unfinished masterpiece is an "unfinished" masterpiece.

I also can't help wonder if the passing of time isn't screwing up Martin’s overall vision for the story. Time and perspective on life don’t necessarily beget wisdom or skill in anything, much less the creative processes. So take out all of the considerations for the sacrifice of quality, etc, that Martin would have to make to finish up the whole sequence of novels in the next few years… if he can’t bring himself to do that, then you’ve got a 60+ year old man finishing off a story that a 40 year old man started. That is if he finishes it in the “7 YEARS”, otherwise he’ll be 70+.

So, the more time he takes, the more likely he is to screw it up. On the flip side, if he rushes it through, he’s likely to screw it up as well!

Call me an optimist will ‘ya..?

The Saddling Saint said...

I'm kind of new to the whole GRRM discussion so I don't know if anyone has raised this point: Maybe the "linearity" of his writing is hindering him.

I know he's done a lot of side projects since he's started ASoIaF, but the series rose out of a desire to write something other than scripts for Hollywood (or so I read).

Maybe forcing Martin's creativity and attention on one project isn't how he works best. Maybe his mind needs to bounce around, write a sf story, think of something else and come back to ASoIF with a passion.

I'm not necessarily advocating this approach, just wondering if it's been discussed.

Anonymous said...

Nothing can substitute for this series. I read the Game of Thrones the month it came out in Europe and no book or series since has matched the quality of dialogue, depth of characterization or intricacy of plotting.

I'm never going to give up on this series, no matter how ornery and perversely dithering Martin is. Even the quality dip of Feast for Crows does not really concern me; the Egg novellas since then have been just fine.

Nothing in popular culture interest me as much as what went down at Summerhall and Tower of Joy and how will Dany fare in Westeros.

I would still recommend the series to anyone even if DoD is going to be the last one actually published. It's a grand folly, like the Coliseum.

Anonymous said...

I love the fans who actually defend him, as if he really needs it. Keep on making excuses for Mayor McCheese if you want, but the truth is the truth.

Adam said...

Generic trolling comment.

Anonymous said...

I really liked ASOIAF so far, but comparing it to the Coliseum, c'mon.

And if you are SUCH a huge fan, it's ADwD, not DoD. I was caught in the spell for a while, but it passed.

I'm a big fan of escapism but if:

"Nothing in popular culture interest me as much as what went down at Summerhall and Tower of Joy and how will Dany fare in Westeros."

It probably means you need to stop turning the sticky pages of your GRRM calender and get out of your Mother's basement more.

Step into the light. There is a whole big world out there that doesn't revolve around Westeros.

Anonymous said...

I love, love, love the first three books of ASOIAF....but this is just getting beyond rediculous.

I didn't think I'd ever say this, but put me down in the 'ASOIAF will never be finished by GRRM' camp.

:::Sigh:::

Anonymous said...

I don't remember how I chanced upon " A Game of Thrones", but it was a game changer for me. After it, and the sequels, I expected more, way more, from my fantasy reading.

And I'm not one to trash the man: it's my conviction GRRM could take the most insignificant character and make their story riveting. In my view, he is that good.

BUT...

My experience with Orson Scott Card and Disney give me cause for concern. And it's the www.'s fault.

With OSCard, my enjoyment of his work ended with my discovery of his bigotry. I could no longer separate the books from the man.

With Disney, no matter how charming the movie, I always have the disparaging thought that it was created as a marketing tool for merchandise. And even though I know that is probably the same case with the Miyazaki movies I love so much, not having been exposed to that sale job, the Studio Ghibli movies come with less baggage and a cleaner experience.

And the above two example are mostly made possible with the internet making products and people more information dense.

My fear? As my relationship with GRRM becomes increasingly about his delay and lesser product hucksterism, it will infringe on my future enjoyment of ASOIaF.

Since I'm unwilling to decrease my information mining, I wish like crazy that GRRM would buckle down to the book and kill his blog.

JD Salinger after all was known for writing one book and then nothing. But it didn't kill or change his reputation. GRRM might take a lesson from this and STFU until his next book comes out. And I'm not a purest, that could be his 'side' job books as well.

As too many people are discovering in these info rich days (Hi Mel!),the old adage of 'No publicity is bad publicity' is just wrong.

Anonymous said...

Lord knows, we wouldn't want good ol' George to miss a Worldcon! I'm pretty sure fandom will collapse if good ol' George doesn't show up... I mean, who else will absorb the sycophantic attention like an arid sponge?

If only Robert Stanek would make appearances. They invite, and they invite, but bestselling Stanek is ALWAYS too busy. Sigh.