A bigot, a racist, a sexist, a religious fucktard, AND a bad reviewer???
I wasn't planning to post about this, but with all the PMs and emails I received since Friday, it looks as though I must. Don't expect a formal rebuttal from me, however. It would be pointless and do nothing but start a flame-war.
Yes, as so many of you have pointed out, too often sarcasm, cynicism, irony, and a dark sense of humor are lost on idiots. This guys drags me through shit, paints a vile picture of the sort of person he thinks I am, while he obviously ain't smart enough to realize that a lot of his accusations are based on tongue-in-cheek observations I've made over the years. I linked this on my Facebook page when author Mark Lawrence pointed it out to me on Friday morning. Interestingly enough, everyone who knows me personally and who has read it couldn't believe their eyes.
Yes, I am aware that he has taken portions of my travel blogs, the chunks of text that work for him and used them out of context, overlooking the rest. Yes, I know that this is grounds for a lawsuit. I'm a Law grad, remember?
Funny, but most of my friends and family members have all read my travel blogs over the years, and never has anyone perceived anything that could be construed as racist or sexist. Not only that, but taken as a whole, my Southeast-Asian posts are decidedly positive (take away the fact that I was rushed to the hospital in Phuket), and I've loved my time in Thailand, Malaysia, and Singapour. I've been pimping this destination to anyone who'll listen to me ever since, actually.
Yes, most of you have pointed out that he sort of implies that I condone prostitution and the sex industry, while I actively condemn it everywhere I go. Heck, every single post I've written regarding Thailand contains a few paragraphs with me bitching about them.
Yes, as everyone made quite clear, it's obvious this guy has never set foot in Thailand. Had he even a little traveling experience, he would sing another tune, sure. There's a proverb that says: Culture is like strawberry jam. The less you have, the more you spread it. And acrackedmoon sure knows how to spread it. . . Had he spent even a single day in Bangkok, he would know just how ignorant his post make him sound. It's no surprise that I've never met anyone who doesn't agree with me about the proliferation of prostitutes, bar girls, massage parlors, etc. Any man who travels through Thailand can't help but get annoyed by this. Unless they are indeed there for the sex tourism. He mentions that the country has a ton of universities (there were a little over 30 public universities when I was there in 2010), but fails to mention the fact that the average daily wages were less then US6$ at that time. Yes, these girls truly have great prospects, don't they? Yes, it's a bit odd that my personal observations are being judged by someone who, in all likelihood, has never been abroad and likely rarely leaves his parents' basement. . . I've only been to 46 countries, so what do I know?
Yes, I know, he decided to use a few words from the Kuala Lumpur post to damn me, when the entire paragraph contradicts what he is trying to convey. The whole paragraph reads like this:
Although a Muslim regime, Malaysia has always had a "live and let live" attitude. With a multi-ethnic population that gets along well, there is basically no clash of cultures here. No one quite knows how the Malay people make it work, but in KL it's something to see. Kind of gives you hope in mankind. . . Almost. . . Sadly, it's not the same everywhere.:-(
Acrackedmoon's post is so heinous and full of ignorance as to make it ridiculous. I mean, hate me as a reviewer and hate Pat's Fantasy Hotlist, fine. This guy sure does, no question! What I don't understand is where those personal attacks, of a shocking virulence, come from??? I didn't know my blog and myself could generate so much vitriol. . .
Yes, I know he would have liked for me to get knifed. But Robert Stanek said it first, so no brownie points for acrackedmoon for this.
Yes, I know that Larry has helped disseminate this personal attack against me. Funny that he didn't take the time to read the related posts and see that the better part of acrackedmoon's post is stuff taken out of context. Considering that Larry can read like 4 novels in a day, he could probably have read all my Southeast-Asian posts in about 5.2 seconds. Many of you thought that Larry and I were friends. So did I. . .
Another proof of this guy's ignorance: He takes exception that I was upset anime store staffs didn't know about Makoto Shinkai and Hayao Miyazaki. That would be like entering Forbidden Planet and not raise an eyebrow if they had never heard of Neil Gaiman and George R. R. Martin. Are you kidding me?
Yes, I like beautiful girls. Scratch that: I love them! ;-) Wasn't against the law the last time I checked. . .
My promoting the Girls of Geek calendar was +++++gross??? Since 2007, I've never concealed the fact that my mom is a breast cancer survivor. And since then, I've made a lot of efforts to raise awareness and support the cause. And since my cousin died of cancer in the summer of 2010 at the young age of 41, I've been trying to do even more. So supporting such a worthy cause is gross? WTF? Having sexy geek girls wanting to do something special to help raise funds for breast cancer research is bad? Maybe acrackedmoon could elaborate on this. He looks a bit misogynist, or at the very least extremely insecure where women are concerned. . .
In any event, yes I'm aware of all this. So please let it go. From a blog titled Requires Only That You Hate, whose motto is "Your daily dose of hatred and geekrage," would you expect anything less than such an underhanded attack? I'm at a loss as to exactly how I got under this guy's skin in such a way that made him write something so heinous, so overflowing with vitriol. But I'm not going to lose any sleep on it.
It's evident this guy is begging for attention, but I'm not going to link to his post to send traffic his way. Here's the post in its entirety:
Let me introduce you to Pat’s Fantasy Hotlist.
But scratch that. If you are an SF/F fan–which you probably are, reading this blog–you likely have heard of him before. Go over there and you’ll see endless splash banners advertising books or tie-in fiction. He’s basically a genre PR bot: all his content is little more than promotional material on top of promotional material, almost as though he is paid by publishing houses to fellate the latest-and-greatest grimdark neckbeard icon, which he might well be. Who knows.
And if you’ve read him for any length of time, you will probably have noticed that he’s a raging douche. I don’t just mean “douche” in a mild, non-specific way, oh no. We are talking about a grade-A sexist, racist fuckwad. The kind that should be put in a meat-grinder: there’d be about twenty people at the ready, vying to press the GRIND GRIND GRIND button. We’d press it until our fingers are raw and Pat nothing more than a memory of fat white meat.
He visited Thailand this one time: Bangkok: Sultry heat, temples, pollution, never-ending noise, and prostitutes. Off to a good start, and we aren’t even out of the subject line.
The upside: I have hundreds of girls after me. The downside: They’re all prostitutes! I mean, even though I knew what to expect, this goes beyond anything I could ever imagine. . .:\
I am amused that this is probably the only time in his life “hundreds of girls” would be after him in any fashion.
I got very close to punching one of them last night, but held off at the last second. You never know if the guy knows a bit of Thai boxing. And it would have done little to help me make my point if I had found myself flat on my back after a vicious kick I never saw coming, right?
I wish he had tried to punch someone and ended up knifed and bleeding from his guts in a dark corner somewhere. And nobody’d have given a shit, because this man’s douchiness is so evident it radiates off him in waves.
It’s like the jeans and T-shirt test for a girl. You know how any girl can look fantastic in a little black cocktail dress. I’ve always said that the true test is always to see her in a pair of jeans and a T-shirt. If she looks good in those, she’ll look good in anything!=)
Annnnd we’re up to a sexist analogy!
To add insult to injury, I was forced to don long pants in order to visit Wat Phra Kaew, the Temple of the Emerald Buddah. The temple compound is absolutely gorgeous, but to force people to wear shoes and long pants in that kind of heat should be illegal!
Oh, no, not being expected to respect the local traditions! He is Whitey, he is Mighty, and he should be exempt from all rules and regulations!
It’s kind of odd that some aspects of Bangkok could put any Western city to shame, and all the while show you sides straight out of a Third World country when you turn around and face the other way
Fuck you, you smug little shit.
It’s kind of sad to see fat and old Western men walking hand in hand with pretty young Thai girls. They’re absolutely everywhere and not likely to go away. There are a couple of universities here, so hopefully there is a brighter future for many Thai young women.
Oh my god what the fuck. Thailand has tons of universities; Bangkok certainly has more than two and what the fuck is this patronizing bullshit.
Too bad. . . Thai girls have different facial traits than other Asian women. I can see the appeal, certainly. They are beautiful, as well as taller and more shapely than the more petite Asian girls from Japan, Korea, etc. So there will never be any shortage of horny old farts looking for cheap fucks with them. But Christ, when you can’t cross a street corner without having a group of them waving and calling out at you, well that’s a major problem. And the worst thing is that the Thai government doesn’t seem to have much of a problem with the situation. I guess that sex tourism brings in too much money.
YELLOW FEVER YELLOW FEVER RACIST LITTLE COCKSTAIN
God, honkies.
Next: Kuala Lumpur: Mixed Feelings
Poor Thai people. . . That’s the image they have of the West: Dirty old men there for the sex tourism and fucking hippies.
And you, fuckface.
We always seem to think that Asian people are very nice, polite, and reserved, so it’s nice to see them bitch about one another. Haven’t seen this in Thailand, but Malays have no qualms about it. We always see it in the West, with people bitching about Americans, Brits, French, etc. So I couldn’t help laughing when the staff at the hostel would shake their heads and mutter things like “Damned Chinese” or something like that.
Lookie! A white person celebrating Asian-vs-Asian prejudice. Awesome.
Although a Muslim regime
Oh my god what the fuck.
And anime fans, you won’t believe this. I stopped at no less than four anime stores, and NO ONE had ever heard of Makoto Shinkai (still looking for 5 cm per Second and The Place Promised in Our Early Days)!!! Are you kidding me??? I’m in Asia and no one knows shit??? Even worst, only one person knew Hayao Miyazaki!!! Who’s hiring these guys???
ASIANS SHOULD ALL KNOW ABOUT ANIMEEEE. Weeaboos, my friends.
Next, some run-of-the-mill sexism: The Privilege of the Sword. Now I think Ellen Kushner’s writing–what I’ve read of it, being Swordpoint–is shit, boring, and about as clever as cat litter, but…
I am acutely aware that some will grill me for saying this, but Ellen Kushner’s The Privilege of the Sword is, in my humble opinion (which doesn’t count for much, as some will surely point out!), fantasy chick lit.
Chick lit it really isn’t. I mean does he just think anything with a woman on the cover, written by a woman, is…
I’m all for strong and genuine female protagonists, yet this is one of the “girliest” novels I’ve ever read.
OH NOES NOT THE GIRL COOTIES.
I refer to this book as fantasy chick lit because it contains several elements that are associated with “chick lit.” There’s a very “girly” approach to the narrative. It focuses on undying/forbidden love, corny romance, flowers, jewelry, gowns, fabrics, and an inordinate amount of emo moments. For crying out loud, the characters shed more tears in this book than bridesmaids at a wedding! There is only so much crying one can take, after all. In addition, the emo male characters are not authentic.
No comment needed. Cooooooties.
Remember the Elizabeth Moon blow-up? As in, Moon was an Islamophobe and got her con invite rescinded? Well Pat has something to say about that too! Charmingly titled “Islam and Soft-Left Intellectuals: 1 Free Speech: 0.”
WTF??? It’s nice to see that in this soft-Left Obama era, democratic values such as free speech remain the cornerstone of our society. . .
This, of course, comes in response to Elizabeth Moon’s post on Islam. I also picked up the story last month in this post.
Like a fucking caricature, except dead serious. He thinks, of course, that the only people who could possibly take offense at Moon’s xenophobic fuckwaddery can only be “ultra-soft leftists.” Really, just do a search on his blog for “Islam” in general.
Last but not least: “Girls of Geek” calendar. +++++gross.
Dude also thinks Christwire is for real, citing an article by one “Susan B. Xenu” as evidence of everything wrong with America’s xtian fundies. :’)
Pat’s Fantasy Hotlist is a very popular genre blog. What does that say about the SF/F genre? Exactly.
We were talking about starting up a kickstarter project for that Pat-specific meatgrinder, by the way. Who wants to chip in?
------------
Pat's Fantasy Hotlist isn't everyone's cup of tea. And that's as it should be. I don't consider myself a very talented or insightful reviewer. Never have, never will. Pat's Fantasy Hotlist is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less.
Acrackedmoon asks: Pat’s Fantasy Hotlist is a very popular genre blog. What does that say about the SF/F genre? Exactly.
Maybe that a majority of the online SFF community likes a friendly, more casual approach to reviewing? Maybe they like to read the posts of a fan who doesn't take himself too seriously? Your guess is as good as mine. . .
So case closed, as far as I'm concerned. To acrackedmoon, I have no idea where all that pent-up anger is coming from. The passionate hatred you have for me leaves me baffled. Masturbation might help you release some of that geek rage, you know. I could even supply my complimentary copy of the Girls of Geek 2012 calendar for you to focus on. . . It's not true it will make you deaf. . .
Be forewarned I will monitor the comment section.
Peace. . .
175 commentaires:
Wow. Just wow. I haven't always agreed with what you post, but this guy's comments are way, WAY out of line.
Wow I have never found your musings on travel to be anything less than insightful and witty. Hopefully the douche will drown in the leavings of his own offal
OMG!
This guy needs serious psychological held...
Amy
"So case closed, as far as I'm concerned. To acrackedmoon, I have no idea where all that pent-up anger is coming from. The passionate hatred you have for me leaves me baffled. Masturbation might help you release some of that geek rage, you know. I could even supply my complimentary copy of the Girls of Geek 2012 calendar for you to focus on. . . It's not true it will make you deaf. . ."
This is why we love you Pat!:D
The poster is a woman and I believe of Thai descent. Might want to tone down the level of ignorance given that.
I did an Erasmus in both Bangkok and KL and I agree with everything Pat wrote. That was true then (in 2010 when the posts first appeared) and it's true now.
@Kalon: If that person is of Thai descent, he or she is incredibly ignorant about his/her own country and its inhabitants.
He's the douchbag, not you!
And please don't let that cheap attack deter you from writing more travel blogs. I always enjoy them! My boyfriend and I have been dreaming about Belize for years and I want to read your write-up of that country!
Colleen
I wouldn't take it too personally. I've read a couple of the Requires Only That You Hate posts, and they're all the same type of "RAR! Anger! Sexist!" rants even when she does have a point. If you disagree with her, the best thing is to simply ignore it as long as they don't go into the "slanderous" category of attacks.
As Jessica said above, Wow, just wow.
Jeez, Pat. Somebody has waaaaay too much time on their hands and a huge hard** for you especially. Did you happen to wrong this dude in a previous life or something???
If it's a she and not he, then why the fuck is she castigating Pat for speaking up against prostitution and the sex trade in Southeast Asia??? Doesn't make much sense...
Though after reading that rant, I doubt she/he makes much sense at any given time.
Rick
Oh, Patrick. You've been around long enough to know not to feed the trolls. All you're doing is handing her traffic and attention. (No, you didn't link, but there's more than enough there to Google. And yes, people will Google her. Everyone loves a trainwreck.)
Also, in case you didn't catch that, I'm pretty sure acrackedmoon is female.
WTF???? The crazies are out to get you, Pat!
It's not clear cut if it's a guy or a girl. But if that douchebag is a girl, then it makes that post even worse. Sounds more like a stupid and ignorant white boy's rant, one written by an antisocial geek with no friends who uses the anonimity of the internet to cast stones and drag people through mud. Coming from a girl, venting about pat's disapproving of the mass prostitution in Thailand and speaking out against the Western men who take advantage of it, would be pretty idiotic. But Acrackedmoon has already proved that she is not the strongest of lightbulbs so you never know.
Freddy
And here I thought it was a post about the new GoT trailer quoting patchface from Clash of Kings. :P
It's only words. I think you should have just ignored his rubbish to be honest..
I could be wrong, but I think that they're sitting in judgment primarily on things like 'if only the poor girls could go to university' and the like. Or the notion that every young woman in Thailand is a prostitute.
You could always go to their blog and ask.
In any case, a bunch of people who have only visited Thailand telling a Thai person that that person's views are inauthentic and wrong but theirs are good and proper is almost certainly the attitude that would piss someone off.
Not so surprised about Larry, actually. He and Aidan have not been singing your praise these last couple of years you know.
Agreed. If that person is a girl, that rant is ten times worst.
Why would that Bangkok post piss her off?? After bemoaning the fact that prostitution will probably never go away, thanks to those Western pigs looking for cheap fucks, Pat says: There are a couple of universities here, so hopefully there is a brighter future for many Thai young women.
How is that patronizing bullshit?
Jesus fucking Christ??? What was that???
Don't know how you did it, but you really pissed him/her off!
I agree that it's more than borderline illegal. People should be more careful when they go public with that kind of shit.
Stephen
I've come to the conclusion that acrackedmoon is an elaborate troll who isn't a lesbian from Thailand but a straight white Western male active at 4chan or some such and is trying to get a rise out of the fandom by acting like an unreasonable, misogynist stereotype. I think those posts that aren't obviously trollish are there for protective coloration.
Telling example: claiming that "author's darling" is much more concise than "Mary Sue".
You sir, ROCK.
when i want to pick up a book to read, i come by your page to check what i should read. when i want to know what an author is like, i refer to your reviews.
and when i want a good laugh, you oblige with articles like this one.
You Sir, ROCK.
Stay Awesome, and please dont regard people like that with much concern. they just dont merit it.
I'd just laugh, and be flattered. You can't do anything to change that person's worldview. Enjoy the press, and remember who's in your corner for the next world con. You can always have it out with them then.
-peterbound
I've been reading your blog since discovering it by lurking on wotmania.com 5 or 6 years ago and you've been my go-to SFF guy ever since. Of course I don't always agree with you. But I've never been able to understand how or why Pat's Fantasy Hotlist can engender so much hatred from readers and other bloggers. Some of the stuff people say about you on twitter and heinous articles like this one leave me speechless.
Amanda Rutter, who's not a big fan of you or your blorg, actually came to your defense on Twitter.
Acrackedmoon was unimpressed: EDIT: for posterity, first-world white people’s tears. I’m entirely unsurprised that Amanda Rutter edits YA books. Clutch those pearls harder, honkies.
Man or woman, that person is a definite douchebag!
That was just... bizarre. I don't really know what else to say about that.
I found this site a while back and thoroughly enjoy the reviews and travel bits.
What's the rule with crazy people? Just ignore them?
(hehe, my captcha is "sicke")
I've been in Thailand three times over the last couple of years, spending even a few months on Ko Tao working on dive ships with my cousin. Everything Pat wrote is unfortunately true. Anyone who's actually been there could vouch for that.
Don't know about The Privilege of the Sword and that Elizabeth Moon stuff, but I can't understand what the deal is about that rant in regards to the Thai stuff. It's just spot on. All of it. I just reread all the related posts...
Ben
I thought maybe Stanek penned that rant, but at least the incoherent words were spelled correctly. Don't let it get you down, Pat. For every 1 lunatic spewing senseless hate, there are 1000+ folks who enjoy your blog.
Oh, speaking from personal experience, it is really not hard to piss him/her of. (I always thought it was a her, but I never really put that much effort into find out more about him/her, because, as I have said other places, batshit insane). Shit, sometimes Pat says things that piss me off but shit.
I think its ironic that a site that complains about violence so much is filled with so much ...violence.
Maybe you can star in my sequel to Fuck You Kalbear: The Grack21 Story.
Oh and Larry completely supports that site, don't let him bullshit you into thinking otherwise.
I am really confused. Where is this coming from? I admit I very, very rarely read the comments, but I believe the comments on this page are pre-approved so if some douche is trolling your blog, can't you just nuke his comments or ban him or something?
Oh, and whoever he/she is, they will deleted any post that even remotely disagrees with them or paints them in a bad light. Something a certain other blog does not do, and I appropriate. :P
Someday very soon he/she is going to piss off the wrong person.
Love the pic.
Wow, I jumped over to this guys blog to see what hes like and I was appalled and at the same time disgusted by his and his followers comments. Not only on this subject but on many of his other posts. Makes me feel dirty just going there.
Congrats Pat!
Looks like you're up there with Richard Dawkins for making the morons scream for blood.
An anti-Dawkins, pro-christian rant was the closest I've seen in that for sheer venom.
Keep up the good work
ETC
too long for me, and too boring.
can you post an abridged version of this post ?
I'll admit that I contributed to the traffic on this person's site, and I feel a little bad about that, however I assure you that it was all in the name of research. While he (or possibly she) may believe that you are a racist sexist fuckwad etc, at least you're in good company; in his very next post he said the same things about Tolkien. And with a 20 second perusal of his reviews section, he makes similar claims about Abercrombie as well.
This reminds me quite a bit of the similar attacks leveled at George R.R. Martin on the blog Tigerbeatdown. The authors of both of those blogs both seem to have a huge chip on their shoulders. You can tell by the titles of their blogs that they thrive on anger and controversy, real or imagined, have fully formed opinions going in, and wear blinders where those opinions are concerned. It's people like these that give people on a left a bad name. The sort of ultra-p.c., holier-than-thou attitudes that make liberals seem like a bunch of pretentious jags with no sense of humor.
However, the internet has long been the place for people to vent their frustrations and anger. The lure of anonymity almost screams for people to come and bash others with little or no fear of reprisal, and it's acrackedmoon's right to do so. However, what cannot be forgiven is the unbelievably shoddy research. You can make anyone say anything, mean anything, if you're willing to go far enough out of context, and boy did he go far out of context. For someone accusing someone else of being condescending and smug, that was one of the smuggest posts I've ever read. I took five minutes and put together a post quoting his post out of context. It was incredibly easy to make him look just as bad as he made you look. However I didn't post it because I figured that it would be quickly discarded and never actually show up on the page, just like my much more politic response I attempted to post on the Tigerbeatdown article.
Ultimately, it makes me sad that this person is going to get away with launching these unfounded and cowardly attacks, and while I respect the mature approach you've taken, I have to say that Pat, you deserve better. From what I can tell, the Hotlist is a popular blog, and as the saying goes, haters gonna hate. I truly believe that this is acrackedmoon's (very minor) 15 minutes, and soon he or she will sink back into relative blog obscurity.
Keep up the good work,
Graham
The author of the post is a woman...as an even surface-level reading of the blog would reveal :/
I'm speechless. Where does such hatred come from? How can someone get so wound up over a bunch of words on a website? Get over it, already.
Pat, don't take any of this crap personally. It's obvious this person wanted a punchbag and you happened to be it. Best thing to do with these people is smile sweetly and walk away.
I have to echo Kyle here. You've been my go-to guy for reading preferences since the days of wotmania.com and I often agree with what you have to say.
I appreciate your ability to scorn books when you believe they should be scorned and praise books that should be praised in spite of whether you received a free copy or not. I have never thought of you as a publisher's spokesperson or some such nonsense and have always enjoyed reading your reviews.
Thanks for years of excellent posts and please don't stop now. This guy/girl is way off base and just looking for attention.
He tried his best to come up with some slanted interpretations, but his "best" lacked imagination. At least make it credible. Now we wait for the even more lame "I was just joking" line.
That's always the same old crap, Pat. Just a premise: I'm Italian and I love your blog (and the way in which you review books).
I know this kind of mind-crap because I've been a fiction writer in Italy and it stroke me too, directly. Let me tell you what I learnt: do not try to understand this kind of person (in Italian we have a word for it: "detrattore", from "detrarre", that means "to take away"). They don't have logic. Envy? Sometimes, but not *all* the times. Simply, they have a closed brain (that doesn't mean they aren't clever, only that their way of thinking is very... narrow). You cannot discuss with them, you cannot try to understand them. I'd fallen in this kind of "war" against them e their silly writings, this foul kind of logic they're sure to possess. After some years I understood, step by step, more and more, how pointless is.
They're always writing behind a nickname (the more high sounding, the more presumptuous they are). The best thing you can do is to ignore them once and for all. They will implode in few weeks.
If the fool's mother is always pregnant, Internet is the father that gives them voice.
Cheers!
Still following you without giving a shit to those fools.
Andrea
Well, I still like your blog and I don't find anything offensive in what you wrote about Thailand, even when it is presented out of context.
What is offensive is that persons blog post/article, whatever it was. It is a direct personal attack littered with insults. Whatever his/her purpose was with that article, it had the opposite effect on me.
WOW! And that person accuses you of being a douchebag? It's a crazy world we live in...
Yeah...baffling is a good word. I really don't see how this blog generates such deep hatred. Seriously, people either love Pat or hate him! In the years I've read this blog, Pat hasn't ever come across as evil, arrogant, misleading, etc. etc... Why the hatred? There's a ton of sites I don't like...so I just don't visit them! I don't post a rant about it.
Now I don't mean to sound like a giddy Hotlist fanboy, but the blog is just fun. Pat's always been a cool guy, posts fun articles, supports good causes, and makes me wanna punch him every time he goes on a 6-week trip around the world!
It's the reason I (and many, many others) visit and enjoy the blog.
I find it very interesting, and somewhat telling, that your new hate stalker does not reveal his or her name at all on that hate-filled blog.
Seems he/she doesn't have the true courage of their convictions if he/she won't stand up and reveal his/her name.
Then again, it could all be an attempt at a long, drawn-out joke.
Generally, her weblog is an interesting, thoughtful and funny read - I like it, even though I don't agree with everything she writes (but then, that would be boring for everyone except the troglodytes).
Since she is of Thai heritage or even nationality, your comments about her "ignorance" are, of course, rather ridiculous.
Sorry Pat, this one might 'hide' behind hilariously aggressive rants and CAPS LOCK rhetoric, but she is an engaged debater and her motives are far from spurious or superficial. If you really want to argue with her, instead of behaving paternalistic to passive-aggressive, you should put more effort into it...
Ludwig Van, if it's really a "she" and she is of Thai heritage, then she suffers from voluntary blindness and refuses to wake up and smell the coffee. Having lived in Bangkok during my Erasmus, I can honestly say that Patrick is right. She had no reason to go crazy the way she did.
I'm half Syrian and you won't find me trying to defend the atrocities being committed by my countrymen. Nor would I insult and throw mud at someone saying bad things about Syria. It's not a perfect country, but every day I thank god for being born in France.
If Acrackedmoon is of Thai descent, her ignorance-filled rant is even more ridiculous. I wonder when was the last time she visited her country????
Holy crap, what did you do to that person? Yikes, that post is ridiculous on so many levels I don't even know where to start. Some of you say she is a girl and Thai herself? That makes it even worse. My friends and I spent over a month in Thailand 4 years ago and unless things have changed dramatically, it is exactly as Pat said.
I don't always agree with what Pat posts, but this is unbelievable!
Josie
Honestly, that person is either the best troll of all time, or really, really disturbed. Maybe a bit of both. Bakker has a good post somewhere where he tears his/her arguments to shreds.
And if you find anything on that blog interesting or insightful...well.....they're no cure for insanity.
You know, the problem could be that she is a girl. I was in Thailand for a few weeks last year and at first I was with a girlfriend because my boyfriend couldn't get off work until the following week. During that time, it was us two girls, we never had a problem other than being harrassed by the annoying tuk-tuk drivers. You see all the prostitution and shit but they don't bother you every second of the day.
My boyfriend and his brother spent a couple of days in Bangkok before joining us in Ko Pha-Ngan (full moon parties ftw!!!) and when they arrived that couldn't stop bitching about it. They couldn't cross a street without having bar girls, lady boys, tuk-tuk drivers wanting to drive them to a certain bar, and hustlers showing them photo album of naked chicks they could have sex with, hollering at them and following them around. That shit gets old real fast if you're a guy.
Having the boys around made us aware of how widespread the prostitution and the sex industry were in the country. We went out to celebrate our last night in Bangkok in a bar on the backpackers' road (can't remember the name, sorry). The place wasn't that big, yet they had 38 bar girls on hand. We counted them.
Anyway, that rant was uncalled for and full of lies and misinterpretations. Maybe she or he needs to go back to Thailand and experience it once again.
Aah, the internets, gotta love 'em.
If there is _anything_ on the internet, somewhere someone is raging incoherently against it. :)
And +1 for being a Makoto Shinkai fan. Bloody good anime, and the best argument against "cartoons are just for children"... well, aside from Grave of the Fireflies. :)
Itkovian
Grack21, based on your ignorant posts on westeros.org (see the rape-in-SFF/Abercrombie-threads of yore), I honestly do not care about whatever you find interesting, insightful or insane. You are obviously not the most lettered of debaters and unable to understand acrackedmoon's theoretical background as well as her critique of colonialist, orientalist and racist motives or prejudices in SFF literature (see, for example her posts about "The Windup Girl"). So why don't you stop embarrassing yourself and go get an education instead?
I seem to recall that person making hysterical rants slagging off the Game of Thrones tv series last year so you seem to be in good company.
As the saying goes "Don't let the bastards grind you down!"
Pat,
I've read the Hotlist for a couple years now and I believe you are a honest reviewer and a generally good person based on what I've read.
In contrast, the post by acrackedmoon is just pure hatred. To write, even jokingly (which I'm not sure that person was joking) about wishing someone were fed through a meat grinder or killed is just despicable. How can you not like someone so badly that you would wish them dead? To write up a post about someone with so much hate just shows how messed up the person who wrote that is. They need serious help!
Keep doing what your doing Pat!
Regards,
Jason
Wow. So I'm not a big Pat supporter but after reading over acrackedmoon a little, this is what I see. She's racist. So a black lesbian woman who was raped, quite probably by her step-father, but who was able to pull herself out of the gutter and get an education. Everything she hates and every rant I've seen is honkies this -- well, I'm white and don't call white people honkies. Course, I don't call black people niggers either. To me, to justify herself, all white people must though. Never been raped, nor raped anyone either. But it isn't something I see read that sets me off that I must enjoy it to have read it. Or a writer must to have written it. Wow. Of course her blog is "Requires Only That You Hate". I'm sure she means it as everyone else, but seems to me she should look inward. Seems actually a bit insightful. One has to wonder why it's never been turned inward?
And wtf is the difference in Pat making a few generalities and her stating "American" like it's the be all, end all, that all American's are this or that. And what's wrong with American's being proud of being American. Why is that bad but other countries can feel proud of their country. And I agree, next time don't take our fucking aid. We could use it ourselves. Holy fuck the rampant racism of that bitch. Yep, Bitch. No other word.
Jonathan McCalmont, another paragon of virtue, was happy to comment on that heinous post: The bigotry, stupidity and moral imbecility of Pat’s Fantasy Hotlist are almost legendary and it is always good to have someone write something pointing out quite how terrible a blog it is.
Have you read the comments over there? And they call pat a douchebag...
What about Larry spreading the word about this? That's pretty low too.
Sebastian
Ah, the I don;t care what you think so here's several sentences of me insulting you argument! Very mature! I like the you must not be educated jab as well! Classic.
RobB, that's no joke I fear. Acrackedmoon has serious anger management issues. Don't know where all that geek rage comes from but this attack was WAY out of line.
Kim
Larry's been dropping little bits of Pat-hate for a while now. No surprise there.
Kim,
All her attacks are way out of line. I think thats kind of the point of the site at this point.:/
Spent the Holidays in Thailand and it's pretty much as Pat has pointed out in his posts. Don't know why this girl/guy would make such a fuss about it. Hookers, bar girls, ladyboys, "massage parlors" are EVERYWHERE. Beyond that crap, it's a lovely country with nice people!
You guys don't think a person visiting Thailand for a few days and a person living there of Thai descent are widely divergent in their ability to give an accurate account of the country?
Come on. Beyond the vitriol there is something to be said for challenging works on their sexism/racism/homophobia.
I'll have to read the entirety of your post on Thailand before I can comment fully on that, but I do agree with Larry that the quotes from you on Required did seem pretty bad.
I will say they really did read like someone lording over a minority nation. Have you asked any other Thai person to read over your travelogue?
-Sciborg2 aka Saajan Patel
@Sciborg2: Any quote taken out of contest can be interpreted negatively. As far as Acrackedmoon is concerned, if he or she closes his or her eyes to the truth, how is their perspective better than that of visitors? No one said he/she lived in Thailand, only that he/she is of Thai descent. I'm of Italian descent but have never been to Italy. Would my account on that country and its problems have more weight than anyone else's? I don't think so.
Have you gone and read any other posts over there Pat? Don't feel singled out, she's pretty much taken aim at everyone and everything that is apparently making her sad panda about SF/F. There is no point in attempting to have anything approaching a civil debate with her, she will only edit or lolno whatever you say, there is no room for real debate, or even any pretense of it, don't even waste your time. Must be joy to know IRL.
For what it's worth, I agree with her 100%. I bet you are ugly, obese, unemployed and can't get laid. You are one of these pieces of crap the world would be less of a shitty place without. Also, you're thin-skinned as shit. Grow the fuck up.
For your information ACRACKEDMOON IS A WOMAN. Unlike you, she has something resembling standards and taste, and she points out flaws in the works she reviews - as opposed to just sucking the author's dick and claiming the book was teh best evahhh!!!!!1!!!!
Some people prefer her snarky, critical approach as opposed to your suck-and-swallow-everything approach. You might want to get checked for STDs before you start to develop warts from swallowing the diseased semen of other neckbeards. Just sayin'.
So far everyone who has commented on her post has agreed that, yes, you are a misogynistic, racist, self-important piece of crap. No one has whiteknighted for you. Don't leave your basement, ever - people in the outside world are meeeeaaaan, especially the women ;)
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ideologue.htm
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/pinko.htm
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/cybersisters.htm
pick one pat.
"Unlike you, she has something resembling standards and taste, and she points out flaws in the works she reviews - as opposed to just sucking the author's dick and claiming the book was teh best evahhh!!!!!1!!!!"
Pat's detractors always bitch about the fact that he rarely gives books more than 7.5/10... Funny that anyone would accuse the guy of sucking any author's dick!
"Come on. Beyond the vitriol there is something to be said for challenging works on their sexism/racism/homophobia."
See, I could get behind that is she didn't seem to hate white people, particularly males. There's a huge double standard here. And her complaints about violence don't really come across to well when in the same article she talks about wanting to kill the author.
@acrackedmope
I'd probably pick the third one there.
lol, what a troll. either that or he just has no sense of humor at all and misinterpret anything you say. fun read though ;)
That is one bigoted hate-filled website...it is kinda ironic in a way.
But I kinda agree with some of the critiques (for example the Wind-up Girl one)...on a superficial level at least.
"Any quote taken out of contest can be interpreted negatively. As far as Acrackedmoon is concerned, if he or she closes his or her eyes to the truth, how is their perspective better than that of visitors? No one said he/she lived in Thailand, only that he/she is of Thai descent."
Last I checked she lives in Thailand.
What truth do you think she is rejecting? Do you think she is in denial about prostitution in Asia, or even Thailand specifically?
It seems like what a lot of people here are joining in to complain about is not the problem of prostitution but how it detracted from their vacation. That slant of privilege is what I would object to if I came from Thailand.
-Sciborg2 aka Saajan Patel
Uh, I think people are here complaining about her being an angry, hate filled, violent person who commits what would probably be libel in just about every blog post.
I can't find anything on the site about him/her living in Thailand. Granted I'm not willing to wade threw that much bile for a fact that I care little about.
For someone who bitches about free speech a lot, its interesting how many comments she deletes from her blog.
So Acrackedmoon is a girl AND of Thai descent?? That makes her hate-filled personal attack against me even more absurd. What a troll...
All my hosts, as well as the members of the staff of the hostels and guesthouses where I lodged in Thailand, most of whom were women, shared my views regarding the widespread prostitution and the sex trade. We discussed the matter quite extensively some nights and never once did they feel that my opinion was out of line. Truth be told, they were much more passionate than I ever was when condemning this.
Oh well...
Angry, whiny b!tch who doesn't have the courage to put her name to things and probably wouldn't be able to to talk you face to face. Haters gonna hate, just don't give them the attention their egos desperately need.
sajaan, the fact that you support such vitriol makes you a hypocrite of the worst kind.
And Larry finally showing his true colours - jealous much? Must have been waiting a while to get that crack in yeah?! Must be tough still trying to pimp that pompous blog of yours.
- paran
@Pat: I don't know why you moderate the comments. You still post all the comments that talk shit about you.
I'm thin-skinned like that... ;-)
That this acrackedmoon is a girl and is also of Thai heritage defies comprehension. She really sounds like an anti-social white boy that never left his parents' basement and hide behind the cover of the intrawebs to throw shit in people's faces.
I may not be as well travelled as Pat but I've been all over Southeast Asia. As an Aussie, it's the easiest place for us to reach other than New Zealand. Can't find anything in what Pat wrote that could have people calling him a racist and sexist pig. Since when is speaking up against prostitutoin and the dirty old men taking advantage of it a bad thing?
Not posting the whole paragraph about Malaysia being a Muslim country was a nice touch. You can see that the poster wrote all that in good faith.
Keep up the good work Pat!
Matt
@Paran: "sajaan, the fact that you support such vitriol makes you a hypocrite of the worst kind."
I'm curious how this makes me a hypocrite, let alone of the worst kind.
I've made it clear in varied places I don't always agree with Moon's opinions or delivery.
I also don't think I said I agreed that Pat was a racist of any kind, just that I could see issues with the statements he made.
I've dealt with people making grand generalizations of India before, and it is hard not to find a certain amount of offensiveness when visitors offer up their wisdom.
@Pat: I think it would have been a good idea to offer the native voices on the issues of sex workers in Thailand. For example, prostitution is a major issue in India as well, but as an American if I were to comment on it I would feel obliged to present the viewpoint of people there and what is being done of fight it.
I do plan on going through your posts and seeing what you felt was taken out of context. As much as an asshole as I am, I like to think I can at least attempt to be a just minded one.
-Sciborg2 aka Saajan Patel
Pat, just want to let you know that I am a fan. I may not agree with everything you say (especially where animé are concerned), but I like you and I highly respect what you do and the fact alone that you contribute so much to the SFF community speaks VOLUMES! which is more than what could be said for the FUCKTARD PIECE OF VOMIT RIDDELED trash that wrote that blog post. And wow, talk about giving feminists an INCREDIBLY BAD REP around the internets. Not even authors like NK jemisin and cindy pon are left unscathed in that titsucker's wake. Basically, she can go slurp cockgrease from a horse's erect dick while drowning in a pool of her own feces! anybody here in faor of throwing her FAT ASS (and the fat asses of her derptastic supporters) through the MEAT GRINDER:)
(and for the record, I am a black SFF fan\anime geek and proud of it).
Maybe instead of getting all defensive and denying how you could not possibly do anything sexist/racist perhaps you should instead have some internal reflection. Take it as a teaching moment to think about where you went wrong.
Here is some good watching on the subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Ti-gkJiXc
I stopped reading your site years ago because you couldn't visit a country without saying how sexy all the women are and objectifying them. It makes me uncomfortable.
Don't hide behind your family, your friends, your "humour". Stop telling Thais or Muslims what to do when you can't even get yourself sorted out.
acrackedmoon veered more towards the "you are a sexist/racist" conversation, than the "things you did/said are sexist/racist" conversation, but you should still learn from this and maybe make your blog more of a safe space.
Yes, I for one am outraged, OUTRAGED at the idea that a Thai woman living in Thailand might claim to know more about her own country than a bunch of Americans who spent a few weeks on holiday in Bangkok. And so RUDE, too! After all, it's not like anyone here would DREAM of resorting to swearwords, hyperbole, or ad hominems... oh, wait.
Whatever you think of her mode of engagement, it's simply ridiculous to suggest that she doesn't know what she's talking about, or doesn't have an entirely valid axe to grind with tourists in her country seeing everything they encounter through a culturally-specific, paternalistic, and heavily flawed filter.
Okay, morons, think about this:
You come along, a mere tourist, and lecture people (amongst them some of Thai descent) about Thailand's prostitution industry. In the West, where you come from, almost everyone conncets Thailand with prostitution and sex tourism. And people from Thailand always get to hear about it.
One of the things that acrackedmoon and others get riled up about is, that when speaking or writing about Thailand, Westerners have nothing better to do than to go on about prostitution and sextourism and how it unnerved or bothered them (see Pat's travell posts).
Now, from which countries comes most of the demand for this sort of "economy"? Right! From western countries.
And, of course, in most western countries (and especially in the United States) there, too, prostitution and human trafficking is rampant.
How do you think does it look from, for example, a Thai perspective, when western tourists who don't know shit about Thailand, after their few-weeks holidays, publicly go on about how bad all that prostitution and sex tourism is over there?
To give you an analogy, imagine that someone from a country where many people are terribly poor, maybe even homeless, without a social welfare system to protect them, visits another country for about three weeks. This country's economy (partly) depends on western demand for cheap goods and thus many people work for breadline wages and live in miserable conditions (by western standards). The traveller then writes about his or her experience:
"O, it's a very nice, clean and friendly country with an interesting cultural heritage and beautiful landscape. But there are so many poor people there! And, you know, they are everywhere! Sitting around in public places for everyone to see. They have no food or shelter and so they are begging all the time. It's horrible and really annoying, because they try to make you give them money and don't take no for an answer. Let me tell you, this is very irritating and opened my eyes in terms of poor people and their living conditions in some countries. The poverty can't go on like this, their government should do something about it!" And so on...
Do you see?
If not: God help you.
I like that she calls you racist and then refers to white people as 'honkies'.....nice
"I like that she calls you racist and then refers to white people as 'honkies'.....nice"
That sums up what I've been trying to say rather well. It's hypocrisy on a level I rarely find outside of 4chan.
And even if she does have occasional valid points, its the way she says them. I don't care how insightful your stuff may be, if you jump up and down and throw a tantrum, no one is going to take you seriously. I speak from personal experience on that one.
So, all these people defending hre, how do you account ofr the fact that she deletes even remotely dissenting opinions from her blog in order to make it look like everyone agrees with her? Love to here the defense for that one.
God, that girl is psycho... How could anyone take this seriously?
Robin
Grack21, it's funny to see that your ignorant views have changed not one iota since the discussions on westeros.org. Racist language does not equal racist language in terms of actual oppression.
A coloured or homosexual or somehow physically impaired person's "racist" language is not equal to that of a white or heterosexual or white heterosexual person with the cultural hegemony and institutional power of the West behind him or her. If someone in the United States' public, for exapmle, uses racist/heteronormativelanguage (or a racist/heteronormative perspective of any kind) against , for example, homosexual people, then instituitonal and cultural power is on his or her side, so to speak, because homosexual people are actually discriminated against. When a homosexual person employs a perspective against the heteronormative culture or particular people, he or she lacks the cultural hegemony to do any actual damage by discrimination. It might be in bad taste or unethical or whatever you want to call it - but it is not the same.
The same is true for every other group which in a society is systematically discriminated against or even oppressed (women, black people, people of asian heritage, somehow impaired people and so on).
And by the way: She doesn't delete every dissenting opinion, but mainly those in which people mansplain stuff to her or get insulting.
Ludwig Van,
I lived in Thailand for 11 months. Yes, I look at things from a French (Western) perspective. But do you think that makes me any less objective than acrackedmoon?
I understand what you're saying about poverty, prostitution, etc. But having a Western traveler like Pat elaborating on those subjects is no grounds for her to go completely crazy like she did. That hate filled post is ridiculous.
Ludwig Van:
"Now, from which countries comes most of the demand for this sort of "economy"? Right! From western countries."
total bullshit. sex tourism accounts for 5% of the Thai prostitution economy; the rest is local. They have drive in brothels, FFS.
@Anonymous:
I was referring to the source of prostitution which comes from the West (namely, the demand of US soldiers during the 60s and 70s). Chinese guest workers also played a role.
And of course, what happens in Thailand between Thais is even more their concern than what happens between Thais and sex tourists from western countries. The point is that prostitution is rampant in the West, too. And sex trafficking comes mainly from a western demand. And to go there and subsequently write about how their sex industry is all icky and irritating and so on, betrays a western cultural perspective - possibly one of supposed supremacy.
Long story short: Get your own shit in order before you lecture others about the error of their ways. It's not that difficult.
Ludwig, prostitution is supposed to be illegal everywhere in Thailand. Don't know if you have ever been there, but I have never seen a cop arrest anyone involved. And everything is extremely open, as far as bar girls, etc, are concerned.
So please drop the "supposed supremacy" argument. Sure, there is prostitution everywhere around the world. But nowhere is it as rampant and evident as in Thailand. And you don't have to go to Pattaya to see evidence of that.
Point is, their government does little or nothing to stop the practice because it does bring millions of baht to the Thai economy. This is what makes this such a sad thing. It's too lucrative for the country to do anything about it. That what Patrick hinted at or at least that's how I understood what he wrote.
Nothing racist and sexist about that.
Jaime
"A coloured or homosexual or somehow physically impaired person's "racist" language is not equal to that of a white or heterosexual or white heterosexual person with the cultural hegemony and institutional power of the West behind him or her."
Ha ha. What? There's different levels of racism now?
So its OK to be racist if you're not white? I don't even know where to begin to describe how wrong that is.
And she sure as hell deletes every dissenting opinion. I've seen it happen. So, you are either deluded yourself, or you are actually her.
"Ha ha. What? There's different levels of racism now?
So its OK to be racist if you're not white? I don't even know where to begin to describe how wrong that is."
As I said: You are an unlettered moron with an uncritical perspective who doesn't bother to question his cultural prejudices and who doesn't know what the fuck he or she is talking about.
But thanks for validating my argument so very poignantly.
Let's ignore the is she/isn't she a racist issue. She still spews out violent, hate filled rhetoric filled with personal attacks and just plain nasty things. No matter how insightful you are, screaming it out and having a tantrum is going to result in no one taking your shit seriously. It's not a civil discussion or even an argument at this point, its two people screaming in a room.
"As I said: You are an unlettered moron with an uncritical perspective who doesn't bother to question his cultural prejudices and who doesn't know what the fuck he or she is talking about."
Ah insults, the highest form of debate.
I don't care if your qualifications run an entire page, resorting to insults helps nothing and noone and invalidates all of your arguments.
Where did I say i was "unlettered"? Assumptions again. But please continue, it just makes you look like more of a troll.
Ludwig-- I agree that Pat's observations regarding the Thai prostitution industry are banal and the expected superficial blather from "I spent a month in Thailand" crowd. But I'm not very sympathetic to the hate-blogger's "authentic voice" for a variety of reasons, her censorship, unearned judgment calls and moral-high-ground posturing among them. She's also Chinese-Thai, as revealed in her 'intermission' post, which puts an interesting spin on things. It would be revealing for her to post a blog about her own 'unearned privilage' in a society that, influenced by generation after generation of migrating Chinese merchants, values lighter skin as a mark of luxury (you work indoors or don't work at all) and darker skin as a sign of poverty (you're forced to labor in the fields). Not that we'd ever see a posting like that, as it is so much easier to attack the fabled pale hegemony.
@Jaime:
I agree that there is nothing sexist or racist about pointing out facts about the economic or social role of prostitution in Thailand.
But people like Patrick don't write academic papers about this issue but holiday diaries. And when they write in a manner that transmits moral indignation about "the others'" prostitution "over there", it shouldn't suprise anyone that people who actually live in Thailand and actually have an agenda (a feminist one, for example) are pissed off by what looks like a western tourist judging their culture - while that same tourist's own culture is not only rife with prostitution, discrimination against women and minority oppression but also one of the causes of sex trafficking from the respective country.
How is this hard to understand?
And make no mistake: I wouldn't accuse Patrick of the same ridiculous blindness than some of the commenters here so despicably express. But he, too, gets all whiny and, instead of engaging the arguments, summons anecdotal evidence from friends and family in order to whitewash himself and his writing... As an adult, perhaps he shouldn't act all defensive to passive-aggressive just because someone like acrackedmoon calls him out in a very straightforward manner. A manner, by the way, which itself is a rhetorical device best not taken personally. And adults are generally able to not take rhetoics personally. The people (amongst them some in the comments here and elsewhere) who react the strongest, are often those who aubsequently betray their prejudices, teir lack of reflection and education the most. They should compose themselves and try using their brain for a change.
"I don't care if your qualifications run an entire page, resorting to insults helps nothing and noone and invalidates all of your arguments."
But Orson Scott Card has a degree! And we all know how awesome his arguments and views are!
Ludwig - mor spellcheck, les sesquipedalian loquaciousness. See how big words don't make you sound more intelligent when you can't spell simple things correctly? :)
But "make no mistake", "moron", "think about this" - when you lose an argument as thoroughly as you have, it's best to just stop posting. *insert "it's time to stop posting" cat here*
LudwigVan is clearly acrackedmoon in disguise. That's obvious at this point. The rhetoric and terms being used are identical.
What amuses me most about this whole thing, is that if you go through the comments of any post at her site where people have challenged her she never, ever refutes their proper arguments and will either "lol" them, call them a racist or a sexist, and dismiss them based on that. I'm not kidding, there is zero proper debate about the topics at hand, and when someone calls her on specific points she ignores those specific points entirely, and spirals things off into name-calling and internet terms (most of which originated at 4chan).
I'm quite certain at this point that this is the biggest group troll excursion from 4chan ever. There is simply no other explanation for the level of insanity. No one person (her satellite personalities that are defending her included) is this nuts.
For someone who hates and despises the "west" so much she certainly seems to have been educated in English, speaks in English and writes her blog in English. Her blog is also a .com site. All .com sites are American in origin, regardless of the poster's home country. They are run/allowed internationally through Verisign in Virginia and icann in California, though they were initially run VIA the US Dept. of Defense.
@acrackedmope:
Contrary to Grack21, I actually gave some explanaitons and arguments for the views expressed in acrackedmoon's article, while Grack21's answers throughout this thread represent nothing but incessant whining about "bad tone" (How ridiculous! Is that supposed to be an argument?) as well as accusations of all kinds of malice or malcontent. And in light of such perpetuated stupidity on his or her part, I will not refrain from calling him or her an idiot who doesn't engage a single argument made (which obviously is the case). Furthermore, I know this behaviour from westeros.org, where he and some other troglodytes posted ignorant and offensive nonsense in threads about rape in Science Fiction and Fantasy literature.
I don't care at all if someone insults me, as long as he or she has the decency, reflection and intelligence to think before writing - something that many commenters here sadly seem incapable of.
@Sciborg2 aka Saajan Patel:
This is a blog on fantasy/SF books. Not one for giving voice to sex workers. Opening up a blog isn't that hard as that wonky angry moon whatever shows.
Why don't you open such a forum?
Really? Your arguments against me have so far consisted of "lol you are stupids I have degreez". Come on.
And I don't think you understand what I meant by "bad tone". IT;s not that her arguments are invalid because of bad tone its that no one is going to take them seriously. Go onto any talk/debate show on any news channel and try talking like she does, see how far you get.
Oh, love the use of troglodytes. Classy.
@Anonymous: Please excuse my spelling errors. English is not my first language and sometimes I don't spot the flukes. Besides, people who resort to spell-checking instead of discussing arguments are no help in any debate...
And if my language from your perspective equals sesquipedalian loquaciousness, I am sorry about your impaired vocabulary.
What I find interesting is your opinion that I "thoroughly" lost an argument and should "stop posting". This is especially interesting since most commenters here have not yet bothered to actually argue in any way. Strage...
But to add my own perspective: I tried to explain where some of the arguments might come from, even giving examples and an analogy (which, of course, could be criticised). I also used polemic against commenters who - instead of engaging the arguments at hand - resort to all kinds of despicable insults. And I see no problem with insulting people who themselves have no problem to insult others - it's fair game, you see? I mean, come on! There are commenters here, who - in a discussion about feminist themes, God Almighty! - recommend 'masturbation' to the original article's (female) author and try to denigrate her by referring to her gender or sexual orientation. At the same time they deny that she has a point and get all defensive about their own culture/gender/perspective. How fucking low can you get, morons(!)?...
"LudwigVan is clearly acrackedmoon in disguise. That's obvious at this point. The rhetoric and terms being used are identical."
ROFL
The terms are identical because they are the terms actually used in (academic as well as public) discourse to describe the issues some of us are talking about.
You know, there are psychological studies about the infulence of cultural (in-group) perspective on out-group perception, stereotyping and discrimination; about the affirmation and entrenchment of cultural, sexual or ethnic discrimination by a social majority's language with negative connotations ("bitch", "slut", aso); about sexually loaded "gaze" and "form" influencing norms and self-perception; about cultural colonialism and prejudice against "foreign" countries and its perpetuation in western media - and so forth.
Can't you be bothered to do a simple Wikipedia-search when others try to discuss serious topics that you maybe haven't thought about before?
"This is a blog on fantasy/SF books. Not one for giving voice to sex workers. Opening up a blog isn't that hard as that wonky angry moon whatever shows.
Why don't you open such a forum?"
And yet so many people here feel comfortable about bitching about how sex workers ruined their Asian vacations?
I like how it is more important to score points, whoever you are, than consider why it might matter to include more native voices when discussing things like prostitution.
Anywho, I'm still going through the articles in question but I do feel the need to note that "Islam and Soft Left: 1 Free Speech: 0" is particularly offensive not to mention a little silly to bring up the "Obama era" when conservatives were more than happy to attack free speech for years on the grounds of patriotism and supporting the troops. That criticism of an SFF author is tantamount to the massive restrictions of freedom that preceded the "soft left Obama era" is willful ignorance.
But really the childish political digs are minor compared to this suggestion that Islam, in its multitude of practitioners, is against free speech. It undercuts the many people doing more than making pithy comments on a SFF blog and risking life and limb to democratize their own countries in ways as varied as pushing for open media and seeking prosecution of rapes and honor killings + disfigurements.
Sciborg2 aka Saajan Patel
"So please drop the "supposed supremacy" argument. Sure, there is prostitution everywhere around the world. But nowhere is it as rampant and evident as in Thailand. And you don't have to go to Pattaya to see evidence of that."
Evidence would be great actually. I'd like to the see the stats on your claim about things being "rampant and evident" across Thailand.
I'd also like to know, when said evidence is presented, if you looked it up before or after you made this statement.
-Sciborg2 aka Saajan Patel
Neckbeard is used in academia? Gosh, my unletteredness must be showing.
And the cycle begins again!
Ludwig is the sociologists' version of 4chan
Some people's lives are so meaningless and empty.
But as with Stanek's BS, Pat, you could have taken the high road and just let it go into the oblivion it was meant to be. I know you're having fun (if there's any fun to be had in being the target of blind, jealous hate), but that's probably what they're saying on their end.
C.B.
From a cursory skim of her blog,you may rest easy that you are not special;she does the same to pretty much every book or author she reviews,sometimes with what seems to be a coherent argument,a lotta times not.You just happen to be latest in a line that includes Jim Butcher,NK Jemisin and Cat Valente for starters.
Perhaps she's trolling for page views;more likely she just has issues.She manages to vent an impressive amount of vitriol for a blog which is not quite ten months old.
Don't get me wrong;I don't always agree with you.I remember disagreeing with you over Mark Steyn once on this blog.Nothing you've written though matches up with the picture she seems to be portraying.
This lady just seems to be projecting though.Move on.
Nine.
@Grack21: I never called you a "Neckbeard", I called you ignorant, unlettered and a moron, and I implied that you suffer from stupidity and belong to the vast majority of troglodytes in this comment section.
@anonymous: 4chan? It's funny how people who so hotly defend Patrick's posts against a feminist's critical rant, try to group their opponents together with misogynists and racists...
[Pat, there should be another comment of mine awaiting your moderation: I answered the spelling/verbosity accusation by some Anonymous. If I recall correctly, it wasn't particularly insulting... Thanks, by the way, for allowing dissenting opinions on your hotlist! :) -- You can delete the text in brackets.]
She's honest with her opinions, intelligent, empathetic, and while she does get a little out of hand sometimes I hardly view this as grounds for an internet war. And no this is not grounds for a law suit. Also, female pronouns Pat, they exist. The author is a Thai woman with a degree, and I personally find her blog quite thought provoking and hilarious, though I may not agree with everything she says. Grow up and chastise your slavering horde of sycophants for their rudeness. You claim to be moderating these comments and yet you've allowed Ryan to make comments glorifying rape as a punishment.
--Verboten
Hey Pat,
Acrackedmoon ain't pleased because you said you were going to monitor the comments and you let people talk shit about her.
Oh and people on her site now say that you're a homophobe...
Blake
Seriously Pat, you let a man state that the writer of the piece was a black lesbian rape survivor, and he was using this as an insult. How the fuck is that ever appropriate?
Okay. So first off, I made it to acrackedmoon's blog. Yay me. Albeit not as a commenter which seems to be striclty prohibited to those that agree with her. Now, so I apologize for using some harsh language by way of name-calling of acrackedmoon, earlier. Unacceptable. I would like to point out to her that I'm not the "Ryan" you apparently had troubles with in the past. I had to go check out the post in question and wanted to assure you that's not me. Actually, yesterday is the first time I'd ever even heard of you or your blog.
So, that said, I'd like to mention that at the very least Pat is willing to take his lumps as they come. I think when he stated "be forewarned, I'm moderating this..." he meant rather he wouldn't let it melt into an outright name calling or acrackedmoon -- without any at least valid-seeming points -- bashing. Also, seems he lets any and all Pat bashing in. Must be the sexixt/racist in him.
Also, I'd like to state -- and really for no other reason, but to state why I think I'm not a racist -- that I am an American-caucasian and am and have been happily married to a one-half black, one-half Native American -- Navajo, specifically, woman. We have 3 adorable/beautiful children. Wouldn't change it for the world. I also have a niece who is half-white and is the most beautiful girl in the world. Her mother, my sister, is white. Her father is black.
Now, I'm just waiting to hear why it is I'm racist and how none of that matters, as I am and always will be racist. This specifically to cracked but I'd be happy to hear from anybody that can give me honest dialog, as I'm probably not the smartest person in the room and don't really engage in some of the "deeper" thinking aspects. Probably one reason I and thousands others visit Pat's blog. Sometimes it's nice to just go to a blog and get some basic info you don't have to think too much about and just "find" something good to read. Or win a book. For godssakes, the nerve of giving away a book, right.
Now, I won't say I agree with Pat about everything -- or really much, but I do find him to be pretty open and honest. And if somebody finds something wrong with some of his travellogs or even his book blogs well, maybe they're just looking too deep. Maybe he's just putting something out there to be taken at actual face value and out to have a good time. I mean, it's also nice to go to Larry's blog and get innundated with the deep stuff. Can learn a lot there, but I know I sometimes want to get off work and just relax with a nice easy book review on something that might catch my interest.
I also follow the Scottsman what were speculative and love his blog. He hates Pat. I'm glad for both. Lots hate Pat it seems for what he is, something easy to take your mind off and give a nice review of a book on the face value of said book. Who cares. You don't like it don't look. You want more insightful book reviews, give them. Go someplace else and read them. Why care what Pat does? Obviously more people come to his site than probably any other SFF site. You can't stand that? That people are so stupid as to read that shit and they should read yours. Well, those that want that do. Don't hate on something that's different or somebody that's doing somethign different. Ain't that free speech? Guess hating on it is free speech too, for that matter.
Part 2 of 2. :) LOL
To me hate is just easy. Much easier than the opposite, which I don't think is love. So there acrackedmoon, get me up on your Hate-filled website. Man, I'm a popular SOB. Maybe I'll start my own blog. Whatcha think cracked?? Anyways, this should all be played out, but it was fun whilst it lasted. Train wreck and all that.
Sorry about the female dog name calling, cracked. Just 'cause some people may say something racist or sexist or maybe say something in the heat of the moment or in anger, probably shouldn't label them forevermore as such and such. Lest, anybody using honkies is probably the Queen of all racists there is. Please correct my wrongs if you must, but do accept my apology. It's not for me, but rather for you. I feel fine. Seems it would be good for you to accept a from the heart apology in the hopes you have one in yourself somewhere in all that hate neh anger. Long. I know. Thanks.
Oh, sorry, but btw I did leave my name 'cause here I thought I wasn't happy with anons blasting on acrackedmoon. Figured she at least deserved the name of who might be blasting her. It worked. I got blasted on her blog. 'Cept backfired as apparently another Ryan had issues with her in the past. I'm a ha, ha, yeah, was going to say "man" and can stand on my own two-feet, but that's probably just the little opening needed, so rather, I'm a "human-being", lol, hope that works. And nothing against the one, three or even four feeters, I just happen to have two. That's it, possibly forever from me. Thanks for the time, all. Keep up the um work, Pat. :) ha, ha.
Holy hell. Never said anything glorifying rape. I hate the thought of any. You people seriously read and take everything you possibly can out of context. She calls me out and you jump on her wagon. I simply stated that, as she's against every single one of these things, I wonder why no book is allowed to have even the semblance of it in there. It's life. It happens. People who do it should die. But it's a reality. I didn't say I hoped she had or would. Of course, unlike her, I didn't say I hoped she'd die or be put through a meat grinder, as she did Pat, either. Wow.
Does anybody read just what they see on the surface? Or does every single thing have to have something deep-rooted in it?
PAT, actually, if I could ask you to just go ahead and delete all my posts that would be probably the best thing possible to maybe put this to rest. Maybe not the earlier ones, as she's already posted on them, and it would probably be called backpedaling or something, I don't know, but I think anything anybody -- and probably most especially I, at this point say is maybe taken out of the context in which I had wrote it.
And let me state unequivocally that I do not and never have, nor will, think anything concerning the act of or anything remotely concerning said act is anything other than despicable. I also state this on grounds so many of you have no idea of which I am talking and hopefully never will. That's all I'm saying on the subjec again, EVER. Sorry if some of you came to the -- in my mind -- misconclusions, none of it was meant in any way. Sometimes ideas and words may come to somebody and they're thought through in the way THEY think and not all the differing ways in which a thought may come through in the eyes of others. For that I sincerely apologize. For those who are on the attacking and actually going out of their way to just find anything they can hate on there's nothing I can do about them. Only apologize to those who I, by my own words, may have offended, though wholeheartedly not in any way on purpose. Sorry. Thanks, Pat. And to you crackedmoon. You actually have a very nice approach to reviews, those not just pouncing on the hate filled commentary, that is. out.
"I never called you a "Neckbeard", I called you ignorant, unlettered and a moron, and I implied that you suffer from stupidity and belong to the vast majority of troglodytes in this comment section."
Ah yes, very academic of you. I like how you keep using unlettered. At least try to think of some different ways to call me an idiot. Adds variety to life!
And what are these specif arguments you claim to have made? All i see is you insulting people and complaining about some posts from another forum.
Yes, obviously Pat is only allowing positive comments through! That is, when he's not off getting STDs from sucking so much dick!
Ryan, you can have a large role in Fuck You Kalbear 3: Pat's Revenge!
That's an in joke from another forum btw. Sciborg gets it. :P
I agree with all those who've made this very basic point: Regardless of whether you agree or even like what Pat has posted, there is no cause to vilify and denigrate him.
The posts on acrackedmoon's blog are often filled with vitriol. The only reason for using such strong terms is that she feels that she is the authority of all good taste. That there is no need to show anyone else any respect.
I wonder what fills her with such certainty that her point of view is the only correct one? How does she know that she had grasped everything that the author wanted to say?
As Bakker says, she must believe that she has hit the magical lottery. She is probably the perfect example of a person with the 'certainty' that Erikson has shown as one of the greatest human failings in his books.
Wow. Mostly speechless.
Just goes to show you that the education system in the US is hard at work turning out ignorance!!
If you still wonder where acrackedmoon's anger is coming from, please, consider your own posts and the writings of your fellow sci-fi writers.
The times have changed. People from the countries you visit or use as a backdrop in your books actually have a chance to read your blog or books.
And guess what? They are not amused by the casual cultural appropriation they encounter every time you decide to spice your writings with some exotic flavor. They are sick to death of your attempts to throw in a cute accent, google translations, mismatched endearments, and stereotypical occupations. They are not happy when you put your own values in the heads of the characters that are supposed to represent them or when you use them as mere decorations. They are not happy when you come to their countries and then lecture them on their issues, spreading banalities. Yes, they know that dictator X used to eat kittens for breakfast. Yes, the elections were fixed. Yes, the prostitution is an issue. Thank you for your valuable and friendly insight, I'm sure, you were only trying to tell the world the truth.
And speaking of you personally, your support of raunch culture really puts a damper on your claims about condoning prostitution everywhere you go. A little bit of consistency would've been nice... I mean if we're trying to be friendly and respectful to each other here.
-NF
@ NF
It's called FICTION.
Perhaps you need to look that term up.
Raunch culture? WTf?
has anyone else noticed that acrackedmoon seems to delight in referring to us as "the West" as if we are some big conglomeration of like-minded people who all share the identical opinion, and are okay to defame as one blanket term? Does this seem to anyone else like the very height of hypocrisy from someone who is standing on their soapbox ranting about racists and sexists?
Pot meet kettle ect.
Calling people neckbeards, whitey, honkie and other, more colorful terms seems really counterproductive doesn't it, if what you are arguing against is racism or sexism? Or is that just me? And before she chimes in with "that's not proper racism until you've been denied jobs", ect., there are not levels of racism. You cannot break it down like that...the moment you do that you immediately lose all integrity to your argument as a whole. (Debating 101)
Secondly, does anyone believe for one second that acrackedmoon (or her alter ego Ludwig) can be considered the intellectual or academic she claims to be when she resorts most often to petty name calling and expletive-heavy text in her posts?
Sadly, I doubt her fellow country-folk (be it Thailand or wherever she is from), government, academics, or otherwise would wish to be represented by someone who can't create a paragraph of real debating text (and not just zealous rantings). I can't understand how she might believe that she could stand in a room full of academics and intellectuals from her country (or any other) and say these things out loud and expect to be taken remotely serious. I'm sure she'd be booted out of the room in seconds. Shouting like a common street thug and accosting the people on the opposite side of your argument with words like "shitstain" is the most surefire way to be seen as a borderline sociopath. Frankly there is no other way to look at it.
@Grack21 - I read that as Raunch Couture. The most stylish forms of Paris runway Raunch.
Anonymous post at 2:02 pretty much summed up my entire thoughts. Last paragraph in particular.
"whining about "bad tone" (How ridiculous! Is that supposed to be an argument?"
This is stupid. It is an argument because tone reflects how adults act and react in society every day. Tone reflects how children without sense act when they are denied something.
And racism and hate occur regardless of the qualifiers that she, and people like Ludwig, put on it.
Simply put, i don't like Pat, and i don't like her, but whatever good points she brings up are lost in a wall of screed, hate, and grandstanding. It is all an attempt to get page views, and its fucking boring.
"Now, so I apologize for using some harsh language by way of name-calling of acrackedmoon, earlier. Unacceptable."
Um, you used black lesbian who was raped by her stepfather as something either laughable or pejorative.
And you want us to tell you why you are still racist?
Additionally, someone mentioned Moon attacking Valente - nope. They have a pretty good relationship.
Her attacks on Butcher were pretty worthy, given his own inability to realize the most crime ridden areas in which his works are set. Instead, he wrote off an up and coming minority area as the bad part of town.
The Fuck Yous directed his way, not just by Moon, are rather justifiable.
As for disagreeing with her, I've done so a few times most specifically w/ regards to Bakker and Tolkien. I've even noted an issue I had with a book she thought was very forward thinking.
Anywho, still making my way through all the articles referenced in her Pat-post.
-Sciborg aka Saajan Patel
Don't worry about it Pat, her blog is a vile cesspool of racism. I mean, she dismisses people's opinions based purely on their skin color (even going as far as posting their pictures, and pointing out their pasty white complexions with a leer, as reasons why we shouldn't pay attention to them/their fiction). If that isn't racism, I don't know what is.
THE SILENT MAJORITY SAYS:
Fuck that girl for coming up with such wild accusations. Most of us have never been to Thailand, but we are smart enough to know you're no racist and sexist pig.
Fuck Larry for spreading those lies. Who's Larry anyway?
Keep up the good work, Pat. There's a reason why so many of us choose to visit your site instead of all the others.
Well, I finally ventured over to her site due to Bakker's recent post. Wow, that broad really is a shrill harpie. But she probably just needs to get laid and that would help her out.
Not to blog spam, but I have a rule about talking about people behind their backs so copypasta-ing a section of my discussion with Bakker:
"...Even Pat's little cartoon about "Post Racial America" suggests, even if not consciously meant this way, a longing for a time when minorities would STFU and laugh along with the privileged at their mockery."
-Sciborg2 aka Saajan Patel
Sciborg2 aka Saajan Patel, you have political correctness coming out of your ass, it seems.
My God, you're reading way too much into this.
Sciborg2 said ""Now, so I apologize for using some harsh language by way of name-calling of acrackedmoon, earlier. Unacceptable."
Um, you used black lesbian who was raped by her stepfather as something either laughable or pejorative.
And you want us to tell you why you are still racist?"
I'm in total agreement with you there. That's the interesting thing with racism. No one actually THINKS that they are racist.
The same thing could be applied to Moon. She hates white people BECAUSE they are white...but doesn't think she a racist? I'm not sure how that even works.
Grack21, haven't you realised she hates white people because they're part of the hegemony...you know THE HEGEMONY GODAMMIT!!!
either that or its because she's a hysterical shrieking harpy with a persecution complex.
Hegemony. Decent PC RTS.
"To write up a post about someone with so much hate just shows how messed up the person who wrote that is. They need serious help!"
[The diagnoses for the psycho lesbian start to come in...]
"She's racist. So a black lesbian woman who was raped, quite probably by her step-father, but who was able to pull herself out of the gutter and get an education."
[How exquisitely classy! And so very much not sexist--]
"Holy fuck the rampant racism of that bitch. Yep, Bitch. No other word."
[Sure, wouldn't expect anything else from people like you.]
"Acrackedmoon has serious anger management issues."
[Nice! Another diagnosis from an expert in clinical psychology.]
"Angry, whiny b!tch who doesn't have the courage to put her name to things and probably wouldn't be able to to talk you face to face."
[Thanks for your very factual insight about that "whiny b!tch"!]
"which is more than what could be said for the FUCKTARD PIECE OF VOMIT RIDDELED trash that wrote that blog post. And wow, talk about giving feminists an INCREDIBLY BAD REP around the internets. Not even authors like NK jemisin and cindy pon are left unscathed in that titsucker's wake. Basically, she can go slurp cockgrease from a horse's erect dick while drowning in a pool of her own feces! anybody here in faor of throwing her FAT ASS (and the fat asses of her derptastic supporters) through the MEAT GRINDER:)"
[This seems to be a rather poorly executed attempt to copy her "bad tone" - only that she has a point to make by using it, while Ryan just seems to be a misogynist crybaby.]
"God, that girl is psycho..."
[Yet another free diagnosis!]
"But she probably just needs to get laid and that would help her out."
[Thank you so much! What could better validate her points?-- That's right! Nothing! :D]
"Sciborg2 aka Saajan Patel, you have political correctness coming out of your ass, it seems."
[Yes, everything makes sense now: These fucked-up people just want to shove their random political correctness down your our poor entiteled throats!]
"either that or its because she's a hysterical shrieking harpy with a persecution complex."
[Some professional managed to make the diagnosis even more precise. Well done!]
If their comments weren't quite so sad, I would laugh at the revealing brutishness of your more outspoken 'defenders', Pat...
I like how you are criticizing people here for doing the exact same thing she does on your blog. Doesn't make you look like a hypocrite at all!
Bad Tone is one of her favourite defences but its obvious that her tone is completely manufactured so as to irritate and inflame those that she hates. Its theatre and she obviously thinks that by stirring people up she's having an effect.
The unfortunate thing is that rather than emphasising her points, her theatrical outbursts serve to make her seem disingenuous and an attention seeking fake. It makes her seem laughable and easy to dismiss.
Ludwig van, since it's rather obvious which side of the spectrum you're on, I would kindly advise you to put down the ammo, climb off our asses and politely step back into that dark corner of the room labelled "reserved for trolls , retards and jackasses" along with moon and some dude named Larry.
I got introduced to acrackedmoon's blog when someone linked her post on Tolkien. While I found much of her central thesis to be valid, I had some major disagreements with what she said, and the tone of her post didn't exactly wow me.
As for Pat's blog, I used to visit here often in my early fantasy reading days, then stopped as I started seeking more incisive and informed reviews. I don't hold the tone of Pat's reviews against him, since he has every right to simply present his honest view in simple terms, and let people take his recommendations based on his prior "track record".
All that said, I was unpleasantly surprised when I read her post about Pat's blog. Having never read any of his travelogues, I was not quite sure if the quotes presented were actually real. A full read of the article in question disabused me, however.
I'm an Indian, and I've seen any number of similar travelogues on India that have caused anger. So let me try and make points similar to acrackedmoon's, without the invective (tempting as that might be, in this case...):
"To add insult to injury, I was forced to don long pants in order to visit Wat Phra Kaew, the Temple of the Emerald Buddah. The temple compound is absolutely gorgeous, but to force people to wear shoes and long pants in that kind of heat should be illegal!"
So, to accommodate tourists who're unused to local weather, local tradition that causes discomfort to said tourists should be made illegal?
"Ancient traditions battle with encroaching Western ways. Pollution and poverty on one side, yet you have thei mpeccably clean, super efficient, and ultra-modern Skytrain and subway system on the other. It's kind of odd that some aspects of Bangkok could put any Western city to shame, and all the while show you sides straight out of a Third World country when you turn around and face the other way."
I've seen similar statements about India, and I have to ask... since when is pollution an "ancient tradition" of Thailand? And since when has poverty been the exclusive preserve of "Third World countries"?
And linking cleanliness and efficiency with "Western ways"? How is this NOT racist? I'm surprised acrackedmoon didn't have anything to say about this.
"One thing that will likely ever go away is the prostitution."
Again, how is this not condescending and racist? The implication is that there is something inherently pro-prostitution in Thais!
"So there will never be any shortage of horny old farts looking for cheap fucks with them. But Christ, when you can't cross a street corner without having a group of them waving and calling out at you, well that's a major problem."
So, in Pat's opinion, Western patrons and their money will ensure that prostitution remains an issue in Thailand. And the "major problem" is that a Western tourist is unable to cross the street in peace? My finger is drawn to the caps lock key to properly express my outrage at the sheer idiocy of this statement. But I'm going to stop, since so many comments here seem to equate the tone of a statement with its validity!
"Although a Muslim regime..."
I'm not quoting the rest of this statement that Pat put up on this post deliberately. Because none of it is relevant. Within context or out of it, this is an insulting thing to say. The real offender here is "Although". Muslim's cannot "live and let live", in general? As a "survivor" of having Muslim neighbors for the first eleven years of my life, I'm happy to disabuse you of that notion. And, at this point, I'm actually surprised at the rather tame response this received. "Oh my god what the fuck", doesn't begin to cover it.
-Raj
Both articles in question are offensive, not just because of the condescending tone in which they discuss local problems that Pat saw the surface of, but also because they indicate racism and Islamophobia. The assumption that a traveler and casual observer can make valid observations on deep seated, complex problems is weird enough, but when combined with the traveler's sad tale of how the manifestation of these issues marred his holiday, incredulity and anger are hardly ridiculous responses.
Now, Pat is hardly the worst offender in this kind of situation, and acrackedmoon's use of invective to publicize her points is tiresome and, in my opinion, not the smartest move. But neither of these points justify the mostly ignorant set of responses above mine.
Pat: Its great that your family and friends don't think you're racist or sexist. It might comfort you, but it is hardly a rebuttal of acrackedmoon's points.
And in all honesty, she does have a point. She may have only quoted parts of your posts, but invective heavy as it was, her post exposed major flaws in what you wrote. You quoted her entire post, yet seemed to have understood none of it. The issue never was that you condoned prostitution, it is about HOW you condemned it. The point was not that you found Kula Lampur a peaceful multi-ethnic city, its that you felt surprised that this was achieved in a "Muslim regime".
So here's a challenge: Ignore her tone and constructively rebut acrackedmoon's points. Or do that with my arguments against your statements. Because there are serious issues with what you posted, and however non-traditional the original criticism was, that isn't reason enough for you not to address them.
-Raj (fionwe1987).
Just this:
http://www.davidbrin.com/addiction.htm
I enjoyed that Ludwig Van Acrackedmoon went through and found all the comments that could be construed as nasty here and posted them all with snappy rebuttals like "Look, a diagnosis!" and the like.
Pointedly ignoring every single one of the comments that make valid, lucid, and non-angry points about her and what she did and is doing.
This, in case anyone didn't know, is a politician's trick. It's also about as see-through as glass. This person (s) purposely goes about refuting (poorly) the comments that are the easiest to disparage (those that call her names back or the like) and doesn't respond to the ones that make perfectly valid points. Why does this person or person's do this? Because they cannot refute the lucid, valid points and so instead ignores them. Otherwise their other argument (against the nasty points) will fall down as the house of cards it properly is without answering the more valid, well-thought out observations. Again, debating 101 fail there.
Aside from this, continuing to ignore these valid points about acrackedmoon's agenda and seeming trolling VIA her site and focusing on what they think about Pat's site and views in his travelogues is a strong arm, bully tactic. Why? Because we learned how you felt about him about 100 comments ago, the need you have to reiterate it over and over doesn't make it any less loud than you said it the first time. But the realization, upon inspection, will quickly dawn that you have no other soapbox on which to stand and so you will continue to stand on the rickety one that has no substance any longer because you made your point long ago. You think Pat is racist and sexist. Fine. We get that. No everyone shares your opinion.
But please attempt to refute what people here have said about her conduct and how on earth she can expect to be taken seriously when she shouts like a fourteen-year old teen with a severe potty mouth. How she could then try to come across as remotely academic, when she uses internet meme terms like they are considered high dialogue. They are not. Neckbeard, teal deer, cluebat...no intellectual or academic would be caught dead using internet buzzwords like that in a conversation in which they expected themselves to be taken seriously.
It's so lovely that many people have chosen to make valid, lucid and non-angry points addressing Acrackedmoon personally and her conduct. If they could also give their well-thought out observations about the issues in question, that would be just swell.
-NF
I think some people have NF. I may disagree with sciborg2 on a lot of things but he seems to be one of the view that can talk about these things without sounding like a 14 year old who has discovered swearing for the first time.
@NF
Indeed that's been established by a lot of people in fact. Some agree that Pat's comments are out of line. Some disagree. That was established long ago.
What other gain do you seek?
Do you think that all of the sudden those people are going to change their minds? That they are going to call Pat out?
That's ridiculous.
No, we moved form the issues at hand and began addressing the way in which acrackedmoon was and is conducting herself.
And in fact we've made that clear now as well, but those points have not been refuted, or properly rebutted...but I don't expect them to be, since she has no defense she could offer for such behaviour that would sound even a little bit courteous.
What do you do when you try to debate with a person who simply screams obscenities in your face with righteous and zealous anger and ideals? You walk away, because what's the point.
She dismisses herself the moment she called people whitey. End of story.
"Pointedly ignoring every single one of the comments that make valid, lucid, and non-angry points about her and what she did and is doing."
You make it seem as if there were many of that sort. Nice try. ;)
Despite what some of the anonymous posters say, there is no lesson for you to learn from whats-her-name's hate. Political correctness taken to insane lengths. Avoid all nouns and verbs....
Here we come to the baseline: People won't change their minds no matter what. Why pretend her politeness will make a difference? What, you suddenly find 'institutional' in the definition of racism? You want polite? Read Larry's post from yesterday.
-NF
The thing that really gets to me is the way she deletes any comment even hinting at disagreement. Her defense is that they were all racist/sexist, but I've seen some of them, and that's just bullshit.
I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how hating white people BECAUSE they are white is NOT racist.
Or how straight males because they are straight males isn't sexist.
Oh this is good.
madness111 says:
February 2, 2012 at 12:52 pm
acrackedmoon, what is this accomplishing?
acrackedmoon says:
February 2, 2012 at 1:20 pm
Making people like you cry butthurt tears. :)
The pure level of academic theology and debate there is just blowing my mind!
Seems to me usually a request for "political" correctness is actually a request for "correctness".
Anywho, I think of this as teachable moment to note that sex trafficking in the US is veiled by our defining it as porn:
http://theyshootstars.com/
WARNING: Sexual blackmail/degradation, rape, abuse. But note this isn't her attempting to report in a titillating fashion IMHO, but rather frank depiction of the problem.
-Sciborg2 aka Saajan
elStep 1: Make incendiary comments
Step 2: Have a holier-than-thou attitude
Step 3: Delete any comments that disagree with you and use a lot of expletives to compensate for the fact that you don't engage in meaningful discourse
Step 4: ???
Step 5: PAGE VIEWS, MOTHERFUCKER!
One rule of internet is you can't please everyone. Just ignore that website.
He doesn't like your blog? I don't like his very much either for a variety of reasons. But I'm not going to write an enraged blog post about it however :)
Don't feed the troll.
Someone named Madness111 dared to ask Acrackedmoon why she was doing this. After receiving a stupid answer, he/she asked: Have you ever perused any cognitive psychology, acrackedmoon?
Madness111 was banned for that. Can you believe this???
That bitch sure is good at starting fires but she can take the heat. And that wasn't really any heat you know.
If you live in a glass house, don't be throwing rocks at people...
Why does that surprise you, Anon??? That girl is a crazy fuck. With all that rage seeking an escape, it's obvious she needs to get laid and I'm talking about some seriously wild sex. Any takers among the Thai lesbians out there? For somme reason I don't think acrackedmoon has a lot of willing ladies knocking on her door. She's got all the hallmarks of a sociopath so I don't think she has many (read: any) friends other than her online hangers-on.
Speaking of getting laid, looks like Larry could definitely use a shag himself. Poor girl though. He'd probably recite some Borges hoping that it counts as foreplay.
Sorry bunch of losers and now they're going at it with Bakker too!
Carey
Unstable geeks don't have sex. It is known.
That's why there's so much rage inside them.
I'm kind of disappointed she's a girl and living in Thailand. I was hoping to see the two of you duking it out at worldcon or another convention!;)
The level of discourse in the comments here is a perfect point by point demonstration of everything that is most vile, misogynistic, and prejudiced, about the problematic elements raised on the blog Requires Only You Hate re this site.
Neither Pat nor the 'moderated comments' on the thread have rebutted these accusations but rather and horrifically outdone them.
Wether you think that the tone of the previous site's complaints is appropriate, this hardly seems a reason to outdo them in personal attacks - especially attacks that centre on acrackedmoon's race, sex, and sexuality.
Bravo. Way to show that she is exactly spot on about her complaints. Good to see you can be adult about it.
I am neither female, a minority, or non-heteronormative, but I have felt definite disquiet in Pat's travel posts in the past. So I'm hardly surprised that someone who has more stake in these issues has found them repulsive. But none, none, so as repulsive and disappointing as found in this thread.
Well done. If I were a writer with a book to flog or a publisher needing some banner space and PR for one, I'd *very* seriously consider if I would wish to be associated with this site. Personally, that answer would no.
Dear Eric,
I'm pretty sure writers and publishers would much prefer being associated with acrackedmoon's hate-filled site.
Florence
After she went after pat with one extremely offensive post (based on lies, misinterpretations, repulsive extrapolation and bad faith), I find it shocking to read people complaining about the comments here. They basically call her a bitch who needs to get laid. Wow! How rude, how disrespectful of them!
In the meantime, onher site acrackedmoon and the dumb geeks that agree with her assessment of Pat and his posts are continuing to dig themselves an even deeper hole. It's funny that she complained of the way at is moderating comments when she herself commented on what she wanted out of her personal attacks: "The total annihilation of Pat and people like Pat? IT IS TO BE HOPED."
Classy to say the least.
OH MY GOD! Hysterical, racist, sexist, lunatic bitch!
Jesus Pat, how can you not be offended by all those accusations? :(
Dear Ludwig Van...
"Racist language does not equal racist language in terms of actual oppression."
Is there a double-blinded controlled study comparing different kinds of racist language in your pants, or are you just happy with "make believe" approach so much ?
Oh, and one more thing... since the comment thread is deep and wide, could someone point to the place where EXACTLY conclusive evidence for acracked being female and/or Thai was first provided ?
P.S.:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/13/syrian-lesbian-blogger-tom-macmaster
Have you people talking about how Thailand is rampant with prostitution stepped outside of the tourist areas? I've been here almost a week, not been in any of the trendy tourist areas like Khao San Road, have yet to be accosted by a hooker (even when I'm not with my wife and kid), and not even seen anyone I could identify as a hooker.
Of course, I do live here. Maybe they're giving the tourists what they want? There's prostitution here, yes. Lots of it is for Thais. Even that's not everywhere. The way you guys make it sound there's a knocking shop around every corner.
Just an FYI, if you don't act interested, the hookers leave you alone. Smile, shake your head no, don't make anymore eye contact, and keep walking. There's no being chased after or accosted even in places like Walking Street.
acrackedmoon is an intriguing persona. She obviously has some good points. It can be annoying to read about your own country through the eyes of a tourist, who might be kind of condescending (even if unwittingly). It's sad she squanders the opportunity to convey these points, every time. I wonder, how many people has she managed to convince, beside those that were convinced already?
One thing is weird to me, though. Her language, even the vulgarisms aside, point to one thing clearly - US high school / college. I've been in the US for 12 years and I'm not following all the slang she knows. It's not British slang, either. Still, everybody here seems to assume she's Thai, which is sort of relevant to the discussion. I haven't seen her mention anything special about Thailand that only an insider would know. So I find it somewhat troubling that she assumes the mantle of a true Thai who feels what we cannot feel.
"Although a Muslim regime..."
Well, well... so is this really racist, or Islamophobic? Note the reference to a "Muslim regime", rather than Muslims themselves. This is not some vast generalization, as if he said "My neighbor, although a Muslim, ..." What Raj posted above is fair, and I have great Muslim friends and neighbors, too. Also, we both happen to live in countries that separate religion and state. Maybe that's what the reference is about?
There are let's say 20 Islamic regimes in the world, so the (implicit) reference is to their record on the treatment of minorities, quite a concrete factual statement. So, is the problem the fact that their record is not as bad as Pat implies, or is it racist to say it aloud even if it's really bad?
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