I'm sick of all this crap. . .


Am I the only one who can't stand this shit anymore???

I mean, come on, man. This is getting old and it won't solve anything. Everyone can't wait to get their hands on George R. R. Martin's A Dance with Dragons (Canada, USA, Europe). Everyone knows GRRM is late and has been for months. Posts defending and condemning the author won't change anything. Personally, I've had more than enough of this ongoing online pissing contest. . .

And I'm not even taking sides here. I'm just fed up with all these pointless arguments. At least count your blessing. By remaining true to form, the Dallas Cowboys screwed up again this season, so George doesn't have to base a character on me and fit me into a scene where I can die horribly.

This latest round in the ongoing verbal sparring match between readers who are for or against GRRM began with a post by Shawn Speakman titled "In Defense of Georgr R. R. Martin." And following additional posts by Adam, Aidan, and more (you can find links to all of those in the next post), the now "infamous" grrrm responded with a post titled "In Offense of George R. R. Martin (and maybe Shawn)."

All of them present valid arguments, of course. But in the end, we are all still back on square one and we're not getting anywhere. So whether you are pro-George or a hater, this is all useless in the end.

Do I want George to finish A Dance with Dragons? Of course I do. But writing a book in a series that is already a landmark fantasy series is not like flipping burgers at McD's. And the detractors who say that they have given up on GRRM are deluding themselves. They can say they won't buy or read the book when it comes out if that helps them sleep at night. But like most fantasy fans, they'll get their copy as soon as it's released. And ADwD will debut at number 1 on the NYT list unless Dan Brown releases his next Robert Langdon novel on the same day. . .

I wish George would hurry it up a little, but not to get the book out faster. Just so all these fucking posts would end. . .

One would think that there's nothing else worthy of being read, inside and outside the genre. . .

37 commentaires:

RobB said...

You do, of course, realize this post adds to all the pissing. Granted it's pissing about the pissing, but in the end, you still have a smelly yellow puddle.

Colinhead said...

That first comment makes me laugh. I understand your frustration, Pat. People need only turn their heads left and right when they are at the book store staring at GRRM's section to find some interesting, worthwhile fantasy.
At this point, I have to reread 1-4 before I start ADWD. That's really the only annoying part here, but I have accepted this and then kept myself busy with other series'. It's not like the reread will be an unpleasant experience.

Anonymous said...

At this point, how can A Dance With Dragons be anything but disappointing...all these high expectations, etc.

Well I only liked the first book anyway and thought the rest of the series incredibly tedious, so the rest of you have fun complaining.

Reggie said...

But it's the same as the nonsense you and RobB are always running around on, it's just another topic. You guys waste all day on those forums discussing nothing, then go on your blogs and elaborate. This is just another discussion that for some reason you don't care about. Cool.

Luis said...

The only thing that bothers me about GRRM's slowness is that I'll have to re-read the series (at leas in part) to be able to get into the next book!

Itkovian said...

"It will be done when it is done". 'nuff said.

Aidan Moher said...

Erm...

Sorry, I didn't realize that thoughtful discussion of one the genre's premier authors was a bad thing.

It's easy enough to ignore all the blog posts, if you're not interested in reading them, Pat.

~Aidan
A Dribble of Ink

Jamie said...

Ha... "I'm sick of all this crap..."

And then you contribute more of it.

Icarus said...

If it is any consolation, I've got book on on my TBR pile waiting for my next vacation, so I'm not upset about Dance with Dragons because I have not finished the preceeding books first.

I do agree, though, that there is lots of other stuff out there to be read right now rather than complaining.

Anonymous said...

@ Aidan:
grrm's huge post was actually really good and very insightful, even though I don't agree with him in some things.

Yes, there's nothing wrong with thoughtful discussion, the problem is that after the post there were many abusive comments calling George a "fat fuck" and other retarded stuff. Its hard not to be angry when this happens.

I love ASOIAF but if I was George, I would tell everybody to fuck off and move to some other project. Nothing's worth this stress.

Plus that would make ASOIAF the stuff of legend decades from now: a series so good that the fans got angry at the writer for not writing faster and he decided not to finish it!

Anonymous said...

Ranting against these posts is just as likely to make them stop as ranting against GRRM is to make him finish his book quicker.
As long as ADWD is not finished, tempers will flare up now and again. And expect the whole thing to resume if the next book isn't finished within 2 years of ADWD's release. It's just the way things are.

Getting angry because of ADWD, one way or another, is extremely foolish.
Being *concerned*, however, is another matter : it has, after all, been close to nine years since GRRM finished a novel (ADWD, by his own admission, was not a finished work, but only "half a book"), and one could wonder whether he hasn't lost his drive entirely. And the fact that he has to devote time and energy to for example sort things out with the Dabel Brothers and his calendars really doesn't help.
It is perfectly understandable that fans should be voicing concern, and they should not be rebuked because of it.

Anonymous said...

Oops, I meant AFFC was only half a book. Apologies.

Shirow66 said...

Just like with Robert Jordan's WOT, I stopped reading GRRM many years ago. I still buy the books as they come out, but I'll wait until the whole series is finished until I read them. I find Martin's series to be ok, but massively overrated. I remember when GRRM announced Feast basically saying: "I know you've waited for Dance but I had to write Feast but it was getting too big so I'll have to put the second half of Feast in Dance." I remember thinking "Well won't that make Dance too big too?" He's just transferring the problem on to the next book. He should have done Feast as one book IMHO. Although in the end, I don't care enough to mind the waiting, which feels pretty sweet.

Anonymous said...

I think old George bit off more than he could chew with this series, and he is finally coming to terms with this - hence the growing (immense) periods of time we are seeing between books and the increasing animosity between the author and his "fans". That is my theory. I think it's high time he admitted this series is simply too large for any one person to finish with the level of quality we expect of it, and trim things down. I think one more book after ADWD is the most we can realistically expect from him, and that is ONLY if ADWD is released sometime in the next year (doubtful). Otherwise I firmly believe we will have to see ASOIAF take a considerable dive in quality or its completion by one or more authors who are not GRRM.

Jebus said...

I'm on the side of finding FTBG very funny but at the same time really don't give a shit about most of the bitching and arguing going on. He'll finish it when he finishes it, it'll be what it will be, and in the meantime I'll have read heaps of great novels by other authors - where's the loss?

Aidan Moher said...

@Anonymous

Yeah, the rebuttal post at Finish the Book now, George (which I assume you were referring to) was a great read. The author brought points to the table that were just as valid as any made by me, Shawn, Peter V. Brett or any of the others defending George.

It is a shame that the commenters came in and ruined any sort of proper discussion there, though – especially with their name calling. I would have loved to have discussed it all in more depth over at grrrm.livejournal.com, but I, along with the other bloggers mentioned in the article, were already in the bad books of the commentors (for the most part) and I wasn't about to get blatantly insulted.

It's funny, though, because I brought up (and agreed with) what most of the people complaining there claim is the real problem: George not updating enough. If they had read my article, they would have noticed that, even in my defense of George, I also mention that I think he needs to do a better job of convincing his ravenous fan base that he's working as hard as he can on A Dance with Dragons. Of course, most of them are also too short sighted to realize that they are the reason that George doesn't update us all more often.

I think the bloggers in question (both pro- and anti-George) did a great job pleading their case, as long as you discount the hairbrained commentors who have nothing to add to the discussion other than name calling. Digging through the comments section, though, does yield some insight from readers.

Phew! I wasn't expecting this to be so long! In the end, my comment was mostly a friendly jab at Pat for discouraging a discussion and then jumping in head first with the next paragraph!

~Aidan
A Dribble of Ink

Anonymous said...

A good way of making the whole debate go away is to posts an article of it on your blog??

Patrick said...

Aidan: I think George learned his lesson about updates with AFfC. His updates annoyed the hell out of fans who wanted the book NOW, so I figure the only update we are likely to get regarding ADwD will be that it's done.

Discussing GRRM and the fact that ADwD is all good, by the way. Doing so ad nauseam is not, methinks. As I mentioned, both factions presented valid points. But after more than two years, this discussion has long ago lost whatever appeal it originally had.

But that's just me...

cedunkley said...

I only came to A Song of Ice and Fire about 2 years ago and I've been taking my time reading it. I'm about 1/3 of the way through A Storm of Swords and I decided since the series is taking a long time to write, I would read a few chapters at a time between other readings.

I'm lucky so far that I can keep most of what's happening in mind.

Overall, I think the series is excellent. Martin writes some of the best tight 3rd person POV narrative around. I'm fine with waiting for quality.

And I have about 40 books in my immediate TBR pile so it's not like there's nothing else to read.

I can understand people's frustrations, which surely must have been compounded with Robert Jordan's death and the fear that this series may end up needing to be finished by another writer.

In the end, I want to know how the story ends. I'll be waiting patiently and reading a slew of other books in the meantime.

Shane said...

I just think its pathetic that these people waste so much time and effort bashing and insulting GRRM. Its gone beyond being frustrated by the waiting. Its just hateful and dumb. If I don't like a certain book or tv show or movie, I ignore it; I don't waste my time trying to convince everyone else how bad it is and how slovenly its creator has become.

Anonymous said...

just read this:

http://grrm.livejournal.com/22998.html?thread=2707158#t2707158

and

http://grrm.livejournal.com/2007/08/29/

there you go.

Adam Whitehead said...

I sort of agree, which I is why I waited over two years before putting up any kind of commentary on the situation on my blog. I only did so because a LOT of false and incorrect information was circulating out there which needed to be cleaned up. And, frankly, it has been amusing seeing those who have been so self-righteous in their claims that they 'know' what is going on not really having any comeback to solid facts and figures other than juvenile name-calling or moving the goalposts around in an attempt to redefine the argument so they still 'win' it. Some of these people would make great politicians.

I think ADWD will be great and will read it as soon as it comes out (since I suspect review copies will be as rare as gold dust when the time finally comes), but there are so many other books coming out this year which promise to be just as good (Mieville's new one comes to mind), that it's something I wouldn't be worrying about at all if it wasn't for the constant blogging attention about it.

Also, it's been a good week or so since this thing peaked, so making this post now probably wasn't the best case of timing ever, Pat ;-)

Anonymous said...

All this discussions its the best thing that can happen to GRRM and the book series. It's constantly discussed although there are years since the last installment came out. GREAT advertising...

Darkstar
www.fantasy-news.com

RobB said...

Reggie,

What type of nonsense would you rather us "run around on?" Like Aidan said, isn't that the purpose of discussion forums and blogs, anyway?

If we are discussing "nothing" then why are you following the discussions, on the forums and blogs?

Ben said...

Love the series, but but it's frustrating seeing Martin blog about everything (Fevre Dream, Wild Cards, Football, Calenders, minitures, trips, rpgs ect.) but ADWD and ASOIAF. I mean if he's become tired and doesn't realistically see completion of the next book or of the series for that matter, he should at least say so. Maybe he already has, and everyone just can believe it.

Anonymous said...

Colinhead, you wrote: "People need only turn their heads left and right when they are at the book store staring at GRRM's section to find some interesting, worthwhile fantasy."
While I am by no means one of Mr Martin's fanatics, I disagree with your argument (which in one form or another is often made against those demanding "Finish the book, George!"). The so-called fantasy genre consists of even more bullshit than most other sorts of literature and there are few fantasy authors who command readable prose (let alone interesting characters or plausible plots).
Mr Martin's 'Song of Ice and Fire' is as articulately written as it is entertaining. It stands out as one of fantasy literature's sparse bright spots.
While lots of people care nothing for fantasy, because the genre (despite one or two valuable works) tends to deter lettered readers, Mr Martin's series appeals to many of them.
So, while there are enough worthwhile books for anyone to read while waiting for 'A Dance with Dragons', only very few of them are fantasy books. And it is because of this, I think, that people who enjoy accomplished fantasy novels hunger after Mr Martin's forthcoming book. Of course this 'craving' is no excuse for the insulting comments on his weblog and other sites. As a writer, Mr Martin is not compelled to reach out to his readers (which, in fact, he does extensively), but some people do not seem to understand that.

AF

Jebus said...

AF - if you think there are few fantasy novels out there that deserve the same amount of praise and recognition as ASOIAF then I'd have to say that you must have gone cuckoo. True, like any genre, there is a lot of crap out there. But there are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of fantasy titles that are as good as and better than ASOIAF - it's a pretty big and varied genre matey, maybe take the blinkers off and check things out.

Adam Whitehead said...

I think it's probably true that in EPIC fantasy, there aren't many writers in GRRM's ballpark, quality-wise (Bakker and Kay are the only other ones that immediately comes to mind, and their work is far more divisive), in the spec fic genre overall there are plenty more writers on the same level of quality, or higher. Christopher Priest and China Mieville immediately come to mind, as do Neil Gaiman, Iain M. Banks, Richard Morgan and Alastair Reynolds.

Whilst not quite as great as GRRM, I would say that among the newer authors Joe Abercrombie, Scott Lynch, Chris Wooding and Pat Rothfuss are worth a look as well.

witty.nic said...

"One would think that there's nothing else worthy of being read, inside and outside the genre.."

Why do people keep using this as a point to quit complaining? Its not hard to read other books and still post a blog about waiting for another one.

Adam Whitehead said...

Hey presto, there is a major update on ADWD on his Notablog. Hope that satisfies some people.

Patrick said...

Some will be satisfied, while others will found more in that post to bitch and moan about.:/

ediFanoB said...

In the meantime I read a lot about this topic and I also left comments on other blogs.

GRRM called these people 'detractors'.

In the end they are really poor people.
The need to abuse because it is their lifeblood. Unfortunately they will never understand.

Anonymous said...

Sorry for my english.

I'll tell you what the trouble is... the new young internet generation. «I want it JUST RIGHT NOW!», they claim. And the world is getting them a whole amount of crappy stuff... just right now. They can't understand real art, they can't understand patience. They only understand burguers. That's it.
What a pity.

Greetings from Spain!

Aaron said...

Don't read it if you don't like it. Simple. And it's not as if you would say a negative thing about GRRM anyway, seeing as how he has nominated your blog for the Hugo and all... Just sayin'.

Slynt said...

True, like any genre, there is a lot of crap out there. But there are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of fantasy titles that are as good as and better than ASOIAF

Ha! This is not true. There is no other fantasy series that is better than ASOIAF. Actually, there's no fiction regardless of genre that's better than ASOIAF. Why do you think people are a bit anxious about "A Dance with Dragons"? If there was something remotely near the quality of THE series, we'd not be waiting with such anticipation.

Anonymous said...

I can't help noticing that "grrrm" and "krkreuk" have been strangely quiet since Martin's posts. Have they finally been shamed into silence ? Or are they just taking their time to frame a particularly venomous reply ?...

Anonymous said...

Or perhaps they don't have a horde of sycophants willing to purchase calendars, pewter minis or water damaged books and are focusing on their own responsibilities, before turning to hobbies and diversions.

the FTBG people were never prolific updaters, at any rate. Go back and look at their posting history if you don't believe that. Same for kreuk. There were 3 posts within the last three months.